By Frostheim

UPDATE: As of Feb. 2014, the Warcraft Hunter’s Union is not being updated. If you’re looking for current hunter and WoW information, I’d encourage you to check out our Hunter Resource List. And if you’re curious about the site and the many epic things the hunter community accomplished, please check on The History of the WHU. You can also still join the WHU Guild, which is alive and well on the Icecrown server. Head in-game and join the /WHU chat channel for an invite.

How can I get in touch with the WHU?
You can email Frostheim at: frostheim@warcrafthuntersunion.com

What server are you on?
Frostheim and Arust are on Alliance side of Icecrown.


Can you help me with my DPS?
Yes. In fact, that is one of the primary purposes of this site. The way we help is with the guides here on the WHU that cover all of the basics of what’s the best dps spec, talent builds, shot rotations, glyphs, gems, enchants, and more. Feel free to shoot us an email if you have a specific question about hunter mechanics or abilities.

Important— please, please, please for the love of all that is worthy do not send me an email saying “Can you look at my character and tell me what I’m doing wrong / how to improve my dps.” I’m not going to say anything different than what it says on this site. In fact, I’m not going to say anything at all. This is the one type of email that I will no longer respond to. It’s very time-consuming to review your profile and very frustrating to then just repeat everything that I’ve already said in all the WHU guides.

What’s the WHU Guild?

The WHU guild is a guild for dues paying members of the WHU to play around with dwarven hunters and generally get up to crazy shenanigans. It is the platform through which we host WHU in-game events. Anyone can join (if you can follow the rules). For more information see the WHU Guild Page.

What does the Donate button money go to?

Donations are appreciated and help to justify the time spent on the site, videos, in-game events, podcasts, and all the research that goes into those. Donations pay for treats and toys — like ice cream and computer upgrades. The cost of hosting this site is very small. The time commitment, however, is very large.

What’s with the gold selling ads?

The WHU has an ad over on the left side that is handled automatically through google adwords.  Unfortunately this means gold selling ads keep popping in. For a while we tried tracking them down and blocking them from our site but they just keep finding new ways around it to sneak on there, so we finally gave up. The frustrating thing is that people clearly click on them (and then buy from them), or they wouldn’t keep doing it.

The WHU has been approached individually by numerous gold sellers asking for a permanent banner ad and offering us good money for the space, and we always, always tell them no. Any ads that appear come in through google — we’ve never talked with the advertisers. We do not recommend buying gold from anyone, and that’s why there’s the warning not to trust them under the ad.

I think your guide is wrong and I heard somewhere that something else was better.
Here at the WHU we are big fans of science, and part of that means that we’re always happy to continually challenge our conclusions. Please feel free to post the theorycrafting or testing methodology and results and we’ll take a look. After all, we want to do the best dps too!

However, if your answer is “I read it on some forums or some other unspecified place on the internet” please don’t bother. Unless you have a scientific argument for why the guide is wrong, we can’t help. After all, if we just do the math over again, we’re going to come to the same conclusions we did in the first place.

Also if your answer is “I was doing heroics/raids/etc one way and it was awesome and much better” then please don’t bother. Giving us anecdotal stories of your dps in a raid isn’t something that is reproducible – which is one of the cornerstones of the scientific method.

I think you’re wrong part 2 – you suck edition
There are a lot of different ways to state your case and argue with someone or with a guide. However there are several kinds arguments that carry no weight and are meaningless in terms of debate. Unfortunately these are all too common on the internet. We are not going to bother responding to any of the following substance-less arguments — seriously, there just isn’t time in the day:

  • Personal Attacks: Anything along the lines of “Ur rong” “U suck” or “the author is a pretentious geek who doesn’t know what he’s talking about” are completely meaningless and without substance. You haven’t said anything about why your point is right or the other person’s is wrong. You haven’t even talked about the point – you’re just talking about the author. You haven’t refuted anything, you’ve just polluted the internet.
  • Ad Hominem Argument: This is something like saying “Frostheim is a dwarf therefore we can’t trust anything he says about racial bonuses.” Once again this comment fails to have any substance. Your comment may be true, but you still haven’t given any evidence at all as to why a statement is wrong. We might be suspicious if we suspect a bias, but we haven’t demonstrated any error. Like a personal attack, you’re still talking about the person rather than the statement or the information.
  • Flat Contradiction: If you say “This guide is wrong, the glyph of beaver shot is actually much better” you once again have failed to communicate any substance. You contradicted something – you told us your view – but you once again didn’t say why something was wrong. A contradiction is fine, as long as it’s then supported with some kind of evidence, or reasoning, or argument.
  • Parting Shot: This is an annoying tactic where a commenter adds to the weak non-arguments above with the “and I’m done and I’m not coming back” as a way to try to get in the last word. This particularly annoys me — if you want to stop reading or discussing, that’s fine, but throwing in a parting shot and saying you aren’t coming back to try to avoid any counter-discussion is just childish.

If you don’t understand something in a post or a comment, feel free to ask for clarification. If you disagree with something, feel free to contradict it as long as you also give some evidence, or at least a reasoned opinion.

I know on the surface this can seem a little unfair — after all, we don’t post all of the math or testing for every recommendation, but we’re asking you to do that if you disagree. I can only assure you that we’re not just making stuff up, we do research every recommendation — and in the end some of the top raiding hunters and theorycrafters in the world tend to agree with the WHU the vast majority of the time. The math and data isn’t posted because then every post would be 10 times as long and 100 times as boring, filled with stuff no one wants to see. But tell you what, if we ever want to disagree with you on your blog, we’ll be more than happy to provide our evidence in our comments at your home :)

What’s with the Reviewed and Accurate? It’s out of date / wrong / not accurate!
Here at the WHU we don’t just write a guide and then leave it sit for all eternity. We regularly review all of the guides and make sure they are still accurate. We hate looking up something online and finding out that it hasn’t been updated since Burning Crusades, and vowed that wouldn’t happen here.

The reviewed and accurate logo has a reviewed date underneath of it, so you know if the guide is or is not up to date. In general, we review all of the guides about every 3 months, or whenever a patch is released with changes to the hunter class. If it’s been over 3 months since a guide was reviewed, feel free to drop us an email and let us know we missed one!

Comment Policy
We’re pretty forgiving here at the WHU as long as you mind your manners. Disagreeing is fine, differing ideas are fine. However, please don’t make it personal — stick to discussing facts and viewpoints and not someone’s mother.

Technically comments are deleted for the following reasons: spam (most common), inappropriate language, or for personal attacks. Of these we even usually leave the personal attacks in (against us — we have thick skins — but not against others), and we usually leave the trolls alone as well. That said, we’re willing at any time to delete comments for language or personal attacks, or for repeated violations of any of the guidelines above.

Can I join your guild?
Sorry, no. But you can join the WHU guild.

If I see you in game, can I ask you a question?
Certainly. Just check first with a /who Frostheim to see if I’m in a raid or not! Every now and then I get tells from readers while in the midst of boss fights, and I feel bad that I cannot respond. Also be aware that I do spend a lot of time afk while doing other stuff so if I don’t answer right at first, feel free to ping me again in a few minutes.

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  1. Philsco says:

    I am an excellent PvP Hunter. I have strategies, talent builds, equipment recommendations, shot rotations and shot strategies, objective techniques, and combat theory that I’d like to compile into a PvP guide (or even section) for your site. I’d also like to do a joint-work guide with my fellow hunter buddy, focusing on the deadly stacking of two hunters working together in a BG.
    What are my chances of getting that to happen?

  2. illy says:

    the same chances of frost reading your post, probably

  3. Euripides says:

    Philsco, please contact me at outdps@gmail.com– I’m looking for someone to guest write some hunter pvp guides and articles.

  4. azkas says:

    Nice Euripides
    thats the way to get new writers, just steal them form other sites :D

    ps. love the Podcast :D

  5. Imes says:

    What server are you on Frost? BTW without question the best hunter info anywhere on the web. I take my hat off to you guys, keep it up.

    /removes hat

  6. Frostheim says:

    I play on Icecrown!

  7. Nukldragger says:

    I really enjoy this site as do the rest of the Hunters in my Guild. I just wanted to ask if there has ever been any talk of allowing MM or Survival Hunters to use the Spirit Beast. I know I would love to use mine in my Guild Raids. I feel with how hard they are to obtain, a exception should be made for those pets. Just my Opinion. Thanks again for all of the Great Hunter Info!!!

    Nukldragger of the Scarlet Crusade (Praetorian Knights)

  8. Kekad says:

    Frostheim just wanted to say, Thank you for a great site with well informed information for hunters. One thing I would like to ask, With the new dungeon finder and leveling with it, Would a survival build be better then a beast master build? If so what would be best while doing some random quests? Something along the lines of a pvp/pve mix?

  9. chris says:

    hia just dinged my hunter to 80 couple of days ago and must admit i was lost as i did no dungeons during my lvling at all, stumbled on this site while in frustration searching web for info and must say i am very impressed.

    after a few hours of reading and tweaking my hunter i now have steady good dps so my hat is off aswell for the imbaness that is this site and its creators, and thank you for your efforts.

    will keep reading as there no doubt is more wisdom yet to receive from this site.


  10. Vampparrow says:

    hats off 2 every1 who helped on this site it has improved my 3k dps to nearly 6k so salutes 2 u all


  11. peeweeism says:

    ok BIG BIG suggestion and request………
    My proffessions are minning and engineering wich minning is great for money and engy is great for pvp and convienience in day to day wow needs…..HOWEVER, i would like to know what proffessions would best benefit in reguards to DPS….. im thinking Jewlcrafting for use of the allowed (3) +34 agility gems in place of the +20’s. ALSO, Leatherworking for the arctic fur lining witch gives you like 130 added attack power in various armor’s…. please please please make a section for what proffesions are beest and what each proffession brings to the table for dps with hunters. Or u can just say it flat out. :) thanks for time.
    this site is THE GREATEST hunter info page in on the net hands down

    Peeweeism / 80 nightelf hunter / the underbog

  12. Arrowan says:

    Has Philsco the first post or anyone elso gathered some PVP info ?
    I sure could use some help.

  13. DarkMoosen says:

    Ok so I’ve looked around for awhile, and haven’t found the answer to the question that’s been attacking my mind for so long. I have an idea of what the answer is, but I feel i should ask someone who might know, so who better then the WHU? Anyways….

    Say I’ve got a hunter. I decide one day that I want to shell out 1000 gold for Dual-Speccing, which I’m sure I will eventually. Anyways I do this and I make my other spec Marksman, my main one being BM. Now, if I happen to be adventuring around with a Warp Stalker, and decide to change my spec, what happens to my exotic pet? And if I changed to MM and lost my pet by doing so, would losing my pet make that big a difference DPS-wise in the first place?

    • Hawkofnight says:

      When you switch from Bm to MM you will not be able to use your exotic pets i have 3 corehounds and a worm that i can not use right now since i have dropped Bm completly i am now mm(pvp arena spec) and surv(for pve and pvp battlegrounds)

  14. Bigtokes says:

    I disagree if frost is a dwarf we def can’t be trusting what he says, dwarves are filthy :). Roflcopter, you have a great site tho guys. Thanks for the help!

  15. JustMe says:

    First, I just want to say that I love your site, it’s amazing. There’s a ton of great information for Hunters here.
    Second, in response to DarkMoosen’s post, I can tell you that when you switch to MM (or Survival, as I do) your exotic pet disappears, but you can call him back when you switch back to BM. I don’t yet know about the DPS end of your question, as I’m just now getting to the point where I really want to measure that kind of thing. I too have been wondering about it, though.

  16. Edathren says:

    Still looking for that glyph of beaver shot…. Isn’t on the armory for some reason

  17. Aldrong says:

    how do i replace the human shaped outline picture with something else?

  18. Jonarrowfoot AKA Brian says:

    I must tell you I am soooooo happy I found this site. I have just started reading and have already used many idea’s. I like the way you approach things and your answer’s to na-sayers. I am Soooo very tired of hearing and even being called a “Huntard”! It makes my blood boil, but saidly there are those who earn that name and the rest of us get the blame. I am a very old school D&Der, yes back in the days of pencils, paper and even dice. I view the hunter class as the Ranger class of D&D, the class i loved to play. I enjoy the class but have felt the bain of felling less then and even picked on. I find it hard to do pvp with my hunters, I have 2 lvl 80’s. Sorry I am ranting on and on. I will keep reading and learn from you guys and Thank you so much for being here. I am sure I will have other things to say in the coming day. sincerly Jon Arrowfoot.

  19. Factoid says:

    I would like to draw attention to Aldrong’s question for it is something that I have wondered for quite a while now. Anyone that can point us in the right direction would be appreciated.

    For those of you who are unwilling to read two posts above mine it is as follows: “How do I replace the human shaped outline picture with something else?”

  20. Tyrage says:

    Best Site all around hands down haha helped me alot thanks for everything keep it coming! :] haha

  21. regner says:

    what is the best pvp talent tree for hunter in bg’s?

  22. Tess says:

    Maybe i’m missing something here, but i can’t find a realm called Icecrown?
    Tnx for a great site!

  23. thrist says:

    Seem to be frustrated with finding the right spec after new patch. I keep jumping back and forth trying to get a feel of the no mana change. I feel like im doing worse. I love my hunter and dont want to have to abandon him. Which spec seems to be doing the most dps currently?

  24. Mathane says:

    So, your BM guide is spot on! The new glyph system, reforging, gem stack, and rotations have bumped my DPS to over 9k! I’m very happy with your research and will be passing your site on to others on my server.

  25. mouser04 says:

    i have a question bout BM . On my server [zangermarsh] they hate BM SPEC and thinking that MM/SURV is the way to go . Me i lov the BM spec till the[UNGODLY] BC NERF .I play the BM spec all the way thru the lich king expansion.Lot of peeps that fussing bout BM getting all the goodies . [WELL good bout time we BM spec got an edge on things . See how it feels when u get nerf mm/surv] What I said to em.[ NOT DOWNING THE OTHER SPEC.] Just tired of having to b ridiculed n laughed at cuase we didnt have no dps,up to a point where we couldnt go on raids or dungeons. Are the BM spec comming back like it use to be,that is the question im asking.
    PS and oh love this site help out lot now i understand lil bit more bout my hunter.

  26. Sticks says:

    I must say that I love this site. I just joined up, and can finally contribute to the place I get all my macro info and strategies!

  27. JM says:

    Hey Frost! I was wondering, do you still play or have you quit?

  28. JM says:

    Ahh ok :) I was just wondering, because i saw you on the Warcraft Armory and you were wearing Tier 1. Doing abit of roleplaying there? Or just like the tier? I know I do!

    • Frostheim says:

      Oh, I was just taking some screenshots for Grandpappy Frostheim. You’ll probably note that I’m wearing some current stuff as well as the t1, where it doesn’t show graphically : )

  29. Trundle says:

    In 4.2, with the buff to Black Arrow, is SV now about as good as MM? Or is MM still superior in every way?

  30. JM says:

    Hey Frost..I know I’ve been asking alot these past couple of days but, do u know what to do in a situation where you have the ‘Error #132’. Just asking because you seem like a wise player, not like alot of people video’s I’ve seen on youtube, where all the comments are ‘Didn’t work’ etc. Any tips would be great :D


  31. Quras says:

    I just wanted to say, thank you for all the help! really appreciate it man! peace

  32. dropbear says:

    Where would I leave a question for the podcast?

  33. Timmathy says:

    Im not good at traping and i often get yelled at because of it. can u guys explain it in detail so i dont mess up anymore?

  34. nightstálker says:

    this is by far the best hunter site i have ever read. wow.
    question thu. what of reforging? is that something that hunters need to do. i follow mr. robot, and reforge everything it says. but i’m not sold on the ideal. i have nearly all the BiS gear, and i’m still losing dps to a lower gear hunter. i’m going to try your current tree build, to see what i can come up with. but i have to just face facts. i need help. would u mind to much if i made a toon on your server just to chat at u and learn what i can? i could use the help.


  35. ColumbusLee says:

    I just added a buckle to my belt and put in a Gem for an additional 50 Agility.

    Agility went up 52.

    Melee Damage went down 403. Melee DPS went down 114.4. Melee Attack Power went down 1521. Melee Crit Chance went up .16%.

    Ranged Damage went down 426. Ranged DPS went down 146.6. Ranged Attack Power went down 1931. Ranged Crit Chance went up .16%

    This doesn’t seem right. Was it worth the over 1000 gold to go up .16% in Crit Chance while going down in Damage, DPS and Attack Power?

    Could there have been a spell from my last PVP that was still in effect?

    I am confused,


  36. wolf says:

    Any rhyme or reason for the SV “oft overlooked middle child syndrome”? The only spec of the three without a self heal (excluding liberation glyph offered to all), BM-spirit mend, MM- Chimera Shot, SV -__- . The only one of the three without a spec specific important glyph …. where is the love?

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