Originally I was going to name it the Hunter Expansion Revamp Project, but then the acronym would have been the HERP. I don’t really want that to be the WHU’s calling card entering the next expansion.

ANYWAY. The HCERP, which you can still add to here, is going swimmingly. Starting next week, we’re going to start rolling out individual articles on various topics. This will culminate in a master list of refined articles, which we can then disseminate to as many people as possible. And again, ALL of this will be in flux based on feedback. And we’re not “going live” with it until I give the word.

That said, I want to take you inside my mind for a second, because I’m definitely not going to be incorporating everything that is suggested. We’ll use some examples from the comments to illustrate my points:

Suggestion: There should be multiple ways to kill a boss depending on what spec everyone brings.

Why Not: This sounds more like something from a co-op Deus Ex game than WoW. Anything that would require a fundamental rewrite of the game’s primary mechanics will not be used. We need to keep our recommendations reasonable.

Suggestion: We need a 4th spec to be able to do {insert desired role}

Why Not: I use this example because Blizzard has openly stated they’re not giving us 4th specs. Occasionally other suggestions come along that go against an intended design philosophy. Anything that is in direct opposition to a statement made by Blizz, we probably need to scrap it.

Specs

This needs its own section.

Spec Suggestion #1: I love the idea of a melee spec.

Spec Suggestion #2: We need all specs to be balanced for all kinds of dps.

Spec Suggestion #3: I don’t ever want to be melee.

Spec Suggestion #4: We should have a dedicated tanking spec.

Spec Suggestion #5: The hunter class has always been about ranged dps. Let us off-tank like we do now, but keep us a pure dps class.

Spec Suggestion #6: Not enough people PvP to warrant a dedicated spec. I want to be able to PvE with any spec.

Spec Suggestion #7: Quit ruining PvE with PvP changes. Give them their own spec.

…so you see my problem. Here’s how we’re handling spec differentiation. I’m going to list 6-7 templates for specs – i.e. AoE, Tanking, Hybrid dps, etc. – and then offer several examples of how Blizzard could mix and match them. The ultimate decision will be Blizzard’s anyway, and no one is going to agree on a configuration. So we’ll treat it by taking the lowest common denominator that we can agree upon – that hunter specs should each feel unique and have a valuable role – and let the chips fall where they may from there.

Excitement

Your voices ARE being heard. And I’m thrilled at the number of suggestions. I have some cool things to incorporate into articles already, and I’m sure you all will provide more.

I’m also not going to reiterate any rules about waiting until the appropriate article to post opinions, because I realized quickly earlier this week that everyone just wants to say what they feel about any and all topics. That’s fine. I don’t want to stifle discussion. Go nuts.

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  1. Chacha says:

    It saddens me that Blizzard has no intention of a 4th spec. When I first saw the post about the HCERP, I was so excited my brain almost exploded out of my ears with ideas for giving some variety to all classes, not just hunters. Earth-tanking mages, blood-healing warlocks, ninja-tanking rogues, dragon-healer hunters… but I guess not :( Maybe they’ll do some mega surgery on SV to get it to be some sort of hybrid thing, but it wouldn’t work for the classes that aren’t just 3 specs of the same pew-pews with different names.
    Is there any specific reason that Blizz doesn’t want a 4th spec? I think it would open up new perspectives into the classes that might attract new people, rather than just throwing out a new class to grind all the way up to 95/100/million.
    I’m sure Blizz could come up with ideas a lot better than the rudimentary stuff I threw together if they wanted to.

  2. Iwawashi says:

    I always felt that the best spec combination for Hunters would be a Raiding DPS spec, a dedicated PVP spec, and finally a Solo/Tanking spec.

  3. Ot says:

    the good
    #2 unless tank
    #3 unless tank
    #4
    #7

    I will never mele with my hunter unless im also tanking

    • Noxxana says:

      “I will never mele with my hunter unless im also tanking”

      Actually I tried that in WotLK (~ ToC era). BM with two daggers. Just for the fun of it. Beeing fully aware of the limitations. It was fun. But it didn’t feel like a hunter anymore…

  4. Marverick says:

    All this stuff is NOT going to happen.

    4th spec, hunter healer, jada, jada…

    As much as i would love it – I would love a pretty consistance source of actual happening hunter stuff even more.

    • Ril says:

      4th spec (tank) is one of the wilder things a portion of the hunter community has been asking for years. for suggestions it doesn’t matter how unlikely they are going to be implemented. there are many more simpler suggestions like changes to aspects and better spec differentiation. i guess it is pretty realistic to see something done about these kinds of stuff.

  5. Thetamoon says:

    Overall I like the idea of BM going melee spec by merging with their beast, MM being a PvP oriented spec but still useful for some raid content and SV being the PvE oriented spec but still useful for some PvP content.

    BM as melee: You take full control of your pet, gain some attacks/abilities in addition to the pet abilities per pet spec. Leave in kill command, use claw/bite as the cobra/arcane equivalent attacks. Could also work using monk mechanics or similar, but would likely be easy to just morph to equivalent buttons and values. You get same actions but if the merged pet is tenacity then you get those abilities/passives, if ferocity you get those abilities/passives, etc. This could make BM using cunning pet an interesting PvP option as well.

    SV as PvE and MM as PvP: pretty much just leaves them where they are. Maybe some adjustments around button bloat and maybe further specialization, but that’s about it.

    BM could become purely melee or could be a choice made out of combat. If BM becomes purely melee then need a mechanism for taming exotic beasts in other specs, I think. Also would need a mechanism for choosing which pet to merge with when switching to BM. I think leaving BM as is with remapping existing abilities to a melee flavor on an out of combat spell would be fine.

  6. Noxxana says:

    Make Survial actually survive. Or change the misleading name.

    But I’d rather not see any changes that turn the whole class upside down.

    If I’m in the mood for some melee/tanking action I log on my DK (strange enough the only DK spec I can’t handle is Unholy, feels to me like you get all the trouble that comes with a “pet” but not the excitement of it).

    If I dersire to heal I play my “Tree”, which is finally allowed again to run around as a tree all the time — the reason why I originally started it long time ago.

    The hunter class is unique in many ways. Yes, there is some need for more spec differentiation. But I don’t see the need for turning it into just another hybrid class (which won’t happen anyways). Also I imagine it hard to explain to any mage why we get a fourth spec to e.g. heal and they don’t. Or to the rogue that always wanted to be a real tank.

  7. Chacha says:

    *If* a 4th spec was ever introduced, it would have to be for everyone. Otherwise they’d come with their pitchforks and nerf-bats calling for our blood. If they’re just wanting to make the 3 specs have different play styles, I think they ought to do it for all of the pure dps classes. I only play my hunter – I can’t get into the mentality of anything else and I don’t care to. And yes, hunters are the best and the rest are all plebs, but you can imagine the outcry if only the one class gets any “special treatment”, even if it is well-deserved.
    As for splitting the specs into pve/pvp, I think it would be a bad idea. I, for one, do not pvp at all. I don’t like it, and I’m not the only one. It would essentially be robbing hunters of any choice to play the spec they *enjoy* playing. It would force pvpers into one role that they might not even like the mechanics of – the same way that you had to bring a wolf back in Wrath raids even if you loved some other pet more and spent weeks hunting for it.

    • Ril says:

      — If they’re just wanting to make the 3 specs have different play styles, I think they ought to do it for all of the pure dps classes —

      they already did a big overhaul on locks and mage specs play much more differently than hunters and rogues. therefore hunters and rogues are at the top of the list for more differentiation and they should get the attention they need. blizz shouldn’t change a class just because some people seem to think that every class should get equal attention every xpack regardless of their actual state. that would be pretty narrow minded and do no good for the game.
      i agree with the 4th spec, however i think that they should consider it for the pures in general, if they want to add another role. changing a spec from dps to tanking/healing would be just as unpopular (“but i want to dps as bm, not tank!!!1).

  8. Ril says:

    My stance on opposite, mutually exclusive suggestions… Often, both types of suggestions are better than the current state and deserve support. For instance, some people suggest a change to aspects that makes them directly related to damage (aspect of single target, aspect of cleaving etc), others suggest aspects that are purely supportive (cheetah, beast and more). Imho, both would be an improvement, regardless of which would be implemented, and both would be better than the removal of aspects. Of course we have favourites but we need to be open minded and support vocally as much as we can.

  9. Ot says:

    BM, SV, and MM will all always be ranged DPS.

    GC has stated in the past that when the changed one of the DKs specs to tanking it resulted in a huge backlash and they would never do that again but instead just add a fourth spec.

    If BM or any of the other two became a mele spec I would consider canceling my wow subscription. heck if a 4th spec was added for mele dps (not tanking) was added and ever became the top dps spec I would consider leaving wow.

    • Thetamoon says:

      So you are saying that all three specs are perfect now and any change would make you unsub?

    • KorialDwarf says:

      i gotta agree with ot here hunters dont need to be melee, and it wouldn’t imho be “huntering” anymore. i dont think there would be anything wrong with hunters having melee “answers”(ala the old wingclip) but a dedicated melee class would be horrible for thode of us that play that class and enjoy ranged(i say this because i am a bm hunter and would be horrified to find i was made melee)

    • KorialDwarf says:

      i can appreciate people wanting to be able to tame exotics but i feel like that would take alot of the individuality away from bm hunters. although when it comes to pet abilities maybe give each pet 2 abilities that seem reasonable to that pet. for instance let spoerbats AND wind serpents or cranes provide spell haste. you just have to choose what ability they get when they are out of combat. i feel this would preserve the unique and flavorful aspect of pets without homogenizing them (by giving every pet every ability) into a “buffs toolbox” that you can reskin whenever you want.

      • Thetamoon says:

        Neither of you mentioned any changes you *would like* to SPECS. You ask for nothing then everything must be perfect right now, QED.

        Although I gotta be fair and say that allowing pets to have two different kinds of buffs would be nice. Heck, while asking for things why not have both buffs at once?

  10. f0nZi3 says:

    Like Ot stated above, I am also against a melee spec for Hunters. We already have a melee Hunter in the game and they are called Rogues. Hunters should stay ranged only.

    I am all for a Pet Tanking spec, whether that’s BM or SV or even a fourth spec. I personally would prefer a fourth spec for this because I agree that changing any of our existing specs into a tanking spec would be a mistake like what happened to DK’s. However, I do think many, many Hunters have longed for the day that we could actually use our pets to tank at a raid level and be completely viable. But it would have to be based on tanking with my pet and controlling him from afar or else I would be against it.

    • Thetamoon says:

      See that’s where I think it could go terribly wrong. If it was based on controlling the pet, making the pet as good as a raid tank, then it’ll either A) suck, and suck bad or B) be overpowered.

      Consider just the 90% DR from AoE attack — that alone lets the pet tank actually stand in the fire. If it could interrupt as often as a tank spec then it would even be OP in PvP.

      So that’s why I think melee spec as part of the tank spec is the only way to make it happen. Because otherwise the tank spec hunter is OP for a whole range of fights.

      • Garfurion says:

        Can you imagine the outcry of player-tanks on the forums if pet-tanks out-tank them ;)

        You could make the player control the pet and have the hunter become the “pet” in terms of mechanics but I fear druids would complain because hunters would be able to tank as sporebats while they are restricted to bear form.

        I think the chances of a hunter melee spec are close to zero if you mean a hunter with melee weapons (like SV could be in classic).

        A less-ranged hunter spec (say max 15-20 yard distance) could differentiate it from the more ranged specs but I think it should still be based on a ranged weapon. SWTOR’s bounty hunter (and trooper) both have tank specs while using ranged weapons so it is not impossible. We could even use a harpoon-shot to pull enemies towards us ;)

  11. Garithas says:

    Something I didn’t think of during the last post, but have wished for before: smarter pets. Spirit beasts, for instance, would be a lot nicer if they would ‘decide’ to use their heal on me or my focus when that target gets below 50% or so. A moth that waited for their target to be casting a spell to cast serenity dust would be very cool. As usual, turning off the ‘auto’ for it would allow you to work it manually, but giving the pet a little more ‘smarts’ would be totally awesome.

    One thing I realized in the discussion about melee is that one of the things I like about being a ranged class with a pet that I have a good deal of control over is that there’s a bit of RTS with my RPG/TPS. Maybe that aspect could be enhanced a bit?

    There were some things I wanted to post on the previous one, but avoided doing so because of what you’d asked. I’ll do another comment later with what I wanted to say there.

  12. hillbillyhatfield says:

    The first one is an absolute 0% chance. Bliz doesn’t want a vanilla surv hunter again. I remember reading in one of the interviews from LK when that question was asked. Said they would get rid of the hunter class before making a melee hunter class. Said to balance pvp, it would destroy pve.
    Rest are good.

  13. Purcy says:

    I must say this is a great idea, but I find myself surprised at how much of the feedback supports things that are outside the “possible” envelope. I think the purpose here is to make a broad spectrum suggestion list, with hopes that some of these things might contribute to the internal discussion at Blizzard, and that that pro-active role of the hunter community prove more useful and actually shape the class more than the reactive type of feedback we can give during a PTR cycle or Beta testing.

    I have seen some really great ideas, but I’ve also seen some surprising things repeated more than once!

    Blizzard has stated categorically that there will NOT be a 4th spec for anyone. Ever.
    The druid situation was unique and actually NEEDED to be fixed. It was the only way they felt they could fix it properly. All these suggestions for a 4th spec are wasted.

    I love the idea of a warlock level overhaul to hunters. However, I still want my hunter to be a hunter. If I want to play a hybrid, I have a druid, a pally, a shaman…. well, you get the idea. We’re discussing changes TO the hunter class, not changing the hunter class into something else.

    It would probably take the rest of the day to find all the ways in which Blizzard has shown and TOLD us that they are never going to just up and separate the PvE game from the PvP game. That means there will NEVER be a specific PvP spec, ever. Suggesting it another couple hundred times will be no more useful than the previous several hundred posts (several thousand maybe?) so please stop wasting your time and suggestions on things that cannot be part of the discussion.

    Tanking spec? Why? Just fix pet tanking. MoP has been pretty awesome in a lot of ways, but they broke pet tanking, and it needs to be fixed.

    Melee hunter? Seriously? Again we’re talking about changes to the class, not changing it into a different class. I don’t want to discourage out of the box thinking, but not so far out of the box that you’re no longer in the discussion.

    I’ll post my own suggestions once I’ve pared down the post to a reasonable length.

    Real spec differentiation would rock. Dual wielding pistols or crossbows would rock. My flaming turtle that I camped for months to tame being able to tank anything more than a paper tiger would rock!

    This discussion rocks! Arth, you rock!

    *gets ahold of himself*

    Sorry. :) Think I’ll go get a coffee!

    • Dethstalker says:

      @Purcy

      It sounds like you have your head screwed on straight. I agree that we should entertain realistic changes to the class.

      Melee hunter? No thanks. Tank hunter? Why? There are enough “tank” classes in the game. We are a “pure” DPS class. I have no desire to play a hybrid class.

      I can’t wait to see your suggestions.

  14. SiegaPlays says:

    A 4th spec allround could be nice. Pure dps specs should then get either a (supportive) tank or heal role as the new spec and those with multiple roles already should get another dedicated dps or pvp spec. That would mean adding more options for support roles though.

    For hunter, I could see a pet tank/heal role for BM, where our abilities with a talent and/or glyph choice could transform some of the cds we use and dmg we would have dealt into pet tank defensive abilities, avoidance and pet absorps or into pets target target healing/absorps. A viable offtank/offheal role choice at the loss of a reasonable chunk of dps, also for pvp healing in a team lacking such. But still so the BM with another choice can stick to pure dps or partially well tanking pet for soloing.

    I’d like to see survival being a serious trap master for support abilities such as slow, cc and interrupts with an added number of improved bombs for pure dps, but having to arm a limited actionbar with the traps/bombs out of combat, so the player have to choose them per encounter, be it pve or pvp.

    However, I could see this as an option for rogue too… synergy between classes could be an interesting way to go for fourth specs, something that is harder to do, because it requires more coordination, but may reap higher benefits if done correctly in well functioning teams – the challenging playstyle for those who thrive on such.

    Marksman I would prolly not change much, besides specialization into more or stronger dot or nuke type abilities for both single target and aoe.

    I would not want to make hunters melee.

    • Dethstalker says:

      “I could see a pet tank/heal role for BM”

      Just one word for that idea “NO!”

      Heal role for our pet? Give him a “lick wounds” ability? Just plain bad idea.

      Pets being able to solo tank… sure. Raid viable tank… no way! Have you ever tanked anything? Tank swaps, moving out of crap on the floor, positioning the boss in “just the right spot”. No way you would be able to raid tank anything and DPS and keep yourself alive.

      Just a real bad pipe dream.

      • Purcy says:

        How about “occasionally, situationally raid viable off tank?

        I’m not sure who you were directing the “Have you ever tanked anything?” comment at, but I have. I used to tank the Rotface encounter in ICC. My handsome turtle (Terry) would tank the boss, and I would kite the slimes.

        Also, I and many others have used our turtle to single tank the Sindragosa encounter.

        It wasn’t that hunter pets were very viable raid tanks in general, it’s that they worked well enough that you could use them in places where a relatively soft off-tank would suffice, or other mechanics made it viable like on Sindragosa. (The stacking debuff increased frost damage taken, and most of that frost damage was AoE, so the debuff was insignificant to pets.)

        Now our pets have less armor and HP than we do, even though they actually have a dedicated tanking SPEC! So, no new tanking viability, just a return to our previous level of ability and utility in this area. I think that’s a fair request. :)

        As for heals, take a look at some of the all hunter raids from WHU’s glorious past. A hunter with 5 spirit beasts is already a darn powerful “off-healer”. A tremendous utility that is often overlooked in discussions of utility, by the way. :)

        This is a great discussion! Let’s keep it lively, and show Blizz that we care! ;)

      • Clin says:

        “Pets being able to solo tank… sure. Raid viable tank… no way!” Sure there’s a way…… be constructive! If, as was suggested a couple of times, they resurrected Eyes of the Beast such that a hunter could ‘take over’ (become) his pet it would be quite viable to tank. Even better if it could happen in combat so we could take over if the tank died. How cool would that be? It’ll never happen but it’s nice to dream.

  15. Purcy says:

    Oh, and by the way, the ICC tanking I’m referring to was when it was current content. Being able to tank previous expansions’ content should be a given! :-P

    • Dethstalker says:

      Very situational tanking is fine… bet WoW already has five “real tanking” classes… pretty sure we can do without a sixth.

      • Thetamoon says:

        To everybody who says we have enough tanking classes… sure, but do we have enough tanks?

        I very regularly tank on my DK because 1) I’m good at it, no matter what class and 2) short queues and sometimes (dungeons) extra bag.

        If we had enough tanks, I think the short queues and extra bag would go to heals? Then you’d say we have enough heal classes (as many as tank classes, as it turns out).
        .
        Now I don’t see how a heal spec is at all appropriate for hunters, but maybe I just lack the imagination for it.

  16. Garithas says:

    Some thoughts I wanted to say before, but didn’t get to:

    In regards to spec differentiation: This might sound counterintuitive, but as was mentioned in earlier comments, I’d like to see non-BM hunters be able to tame exotics. Rather than restrict what the specs can tame, let’s make beast mastery mean something more – it would unlock special skills in ALL pets. Moreover, let’s make BM itself flexible – there’s a lot of talk about tanking, but what if a BM hunter could choose a talent tree that would make them viable tanks, but could also choose a talent tree that would make them viable healers. As healers, perhaps two spirit beasts or a spirit beast and a quilen could be called out and healing coordinated between the two. (In this scenario, I could see the specs work out toward role: ferocity for healing because spirit beasts and quilen default to that, tenacity for tanking.) SV really ought to be full of utility – vital or near-vital utility, to where what they do that loses them DPS can be important enough to outweigh that DPS loss. Perhaps their tricks could provide boosts to other DPS classes and even help the tank when applied at the right time. For MM, what if we make their pets almost unnecessary for them? They’re marksmen; they shoot. They shoot well. For soloing, having a pet out as usual would be useful, but in other cases, they could stay without a pet permanently out, but could call out any of them at any time for a limited time with a cooldown. Moreover, they could call out more than one possibly, again for a limited time and with a short-but-not-too-short cooldown.

    In regards to general suggestions: I’ve often wished there was some kind of “heroic stand” type of thing. The warrior’s “last stand” is something along these lines, but my thinking is more toward something that automatically kicks in for the last person alive when the rest of the group is wiped. Something interesting that *might*, if used well and with luck, prevent a complete wipe. As I said, warriors have (and would still have as well) that “last stand” and what experienced hunter hasn’t heard in Vent the cheers of their fellow players as we’ve saved at least one group from a complete wipe? I’m not talking about something so powerful that it becomes relied on, but something that makes it a *little* more interesting (for people who are not hunters, particularly, the poor buggers).

  17. A guy from the Netherlands says:

    Hey all,

    My thoughts on the hunterspec:

    Rename the specs to: Beastmaster, Marksman and Ranger

    Beastmaster: It works almost the same as it does now. But more focused on pet control.
    Marksman: Make it a pet free class, no pets just damage output with maindps weapon.
    Ranger: This can be the hybrid class for us hunters, maybe worked around the ability Camouflage ( a cool ability with almost no use ). This class is with pets but t

  18. A guy from the Netherlands says:

    Hey all,

    My thoughts on the hunterspec:

    Rename the specs to: Beastmaster, Marksman and Ranger

    Beastmaster: It works almost the same as it does now. But more focused on pet control. The mastery should be build around as it is now, damage from your pet. lNew abilities: not 1 but 2 beasts to control. For example make Dire Beast a BM only ability and make it work with more control over the summoned beast, and make it last longer. New abilities: Bloodshot, a shot that makes the target bleed, your pets do extra damage to bleeding mobs. Make eye of the beast work :) Make Lynx Rush,Stampede BM only.

    Marksman: Make it a pet free class, no pets just damage output with maindps weapon(s). The mastery should be something like Weak Spot, the marksman gets a ….% chance to get …. % speedbonus or damagebonus when an autoshot or ability critical hits. New abilities: dual weapons, Rain of Arrows ( works a bit like the old volley ability, shoots one arrow in the sky that splits in ….. arrows. ) Dualshot, Barrage as a MM ability only.

    Ranger: This can be the hybrid class for us hunters, maybe worked around the ability Camouflage ( a cool ability with almost no use in pve ). This class is with pets but nothing like beastmaster. It works the same as it does now in this expansion. Mastery could be a …..% elemental bonus for autoshots. Every autshot fired has a ….% chance on doing some elemental damage. New abilities: Shot of the elements, this shot is a combined shot from Fire, Ice and Poisonshot ( see below for the new abilities ) that adds a triple dot to your target for …secs for …damage ) Make explosive shot do damage to surrounding mobs, it explodes so mobs around your target should feel it 2.

    Here are also some ideas for old abilities:

    Arcane shot: Needs to be replaced for example charged shot. We don’t use mana anymore so why a magical shot. This shot can be glyphed or talented. For example glyphs can add a fiery, icy glow to your shots. Maybe a glyph that randomize the gloweffects. It can also be made a talent. Remove the serpent sting ability and add it in a talent for charged shot. The 3 talents will be as followed: Fireshot ( adds a fire dot for damage over time, replacing charged shot ) Poisonshot ( see fireshot with a poison dot ) and an Iceshot( of course with an ice dot ). When a steady/cobra shot is fired while the dot is on your target it deals extra (fire,ice or poison) damage. The dot can only be refreshed with the talentshots.

    Serpent sting: Remove it and make it work with charged shot. ( or replace arcane shot with Poison Shot )

    Remove the heal talents. Give the hunter a heal over time, this is slighty buffed when not moving around for … secs.

    Steady and Cobra should be worked out as 1 shot. Not that 1 spec gets this and the other one gets that… Make it one. Make it work with the dots from charged shot.

    Make a 3 talent about stunning / slowing your target. Concussive Shot, Scatter Shot and a Fearshot ( fears your target for ….secs )

    Remove or rework Tranquilizing Shot

    The traps need to be minimized or removed. Remove cobra, and make glyphs for fire and frost traps. The glyphs will replace the explosive for fire (single target ) and freeze for frost.

    Camouflage: This should be the lvl10 talent for Ranger. The ranger is always Camouflaged ( toggle off or on ) Give it the same effect of stealthiness as it is now. But give the ranger a shot that only works with Camouflage, a powerful opener that only works when Camouflaged. ( Camoshot ) Camouflage could also last for a few more secs after the first shot is fired. So the Ranger can get some extra shots / abilities when Camouflaged.

    Blinkstrikes: Make it pet only. ( remove stealth from cats and give it blinkstrikes ) Or make a Riftwalker pet with Riftstrikes.

    Thats whats on my mind for now, I will add some more when some new ideas pop up :)

    • Lirithiel says:

      @ a Guy from the Netherlands

      I like your idea for the 3 spec names. I was going to suggest making MM fight without a pet. I think it was one of the spec options in Guild Wars iirc. Make them pure archers maybe like the Arcane Archer class in D&D.

      I’d like to see SV modeled on Green Arrow with fancy gadgets and stuff but with a pet. Leave BM as is, I’m happy-ish with it going into 5.4 but only time will tell.

      I’m all for differentiating between the 3 specs because they have never been more alike than they are now which sux IMO. But I will not get behind calls for a dedicated tanking or healing spec – that’s just plain daft. We are death dealers and that’s why Blizz designed the other support classes to heal and tank for us. I also agree with Purcy that pet tanking should just be fixed.

      Talking about new shots: Give SV something like Smoke Bomb that sends out a cloud in an 8-yard radius that chokes all targets in range or even one, making them unable to perform any actions for 3 seconds or whatever.

      Also give them web trap through a shot and remove it as a talent for all specs. They already have Explosive Shot which is something out of Green Arrow’s arsenal.

      As much as I like the idea of controlling your pet as BM, I think it will complicate things too much, just like controlling two pets simultaneously would. Keep things simple but FUN after all that’s why we play this game is it not?

      Sorry for the randomness, I’m just sprouting stuff off the top of my head.

  19. Chacha says:

    I’m all for spec differentiation, but not so keen on a pet-less spec. Maybe this is just me that feels this way, but I believe that pets are a part of the hunter’s identity. It’s not just a dot in a furry body, it’s not just your little slave animal to murder things with. Your pet is your friend, a life-long companion, he would die for you, he probably does it all the time. I feel that there’s something more than “I am your master so obey me” in the bond between hunters and their pets. It’s a deeper, instinctual knowledge that they always have your back and you will always have theirs. And it is this that brings me around to the far-fetched idea of a hunter heal spec.

    It would be vastly different from anything we’ve experienced so far, and it would most likely make use of spirit beasts and dragons. Now, I’ve heard the argument about why we can’t tame dragons – they’re sentient intelligent creatures that would never bow to the will of a mortal race and so on. But, like I said, your pet isn’t just your subordinate that takes hits to the face so you don’t have to. Surely if you were aiming to “tame” a dragon, it would be more of a “pact”, a partnership. And it’s not like dragons aren’t related to healing – Ysera’s been like the patron saint of druids since the discovery of the Dream, and Alexstrasza is the Lifebinder. It would be stretching things a bit, lore-wise, but I don’t see why it couldn’t work.

    As for the hunter abilities for something like this, a lot of people scoff at the notion of “shooting healing arrows” which, I agree, sounds ridiculous. But there’s a lot of ways to work around that so that you wouldn’t be hitting your allies saying “It’s for your own good”. There could be all sorts of debuffs to put on enemies that heal or help your allies in some way when they hit them. Hunters are linked to the natural world through their pets, through their exploration of the wilderness. And if you can use venoms and poisons, you can be sure that a hunter will know of antidotes and be able to make healing salves or even call upon nature herself to heal allies (a little bit like druids do, but not nearly to the same extent – unless we get an ability to tame druids :P ).

    This is just my idea for something that I’m well aware might never ever happen. It’s how I envision the idea of what a hunter could be. A hunter is not just an archer with a pet, a hunter is a warden of the world. They understand the need for balance the same way that any predator in the wild does – you can’t just go nuts slaughtering and burning, you’d have nothing left for the next time you want to hunt or find shelter.

    I know this isn’t how a lot of people think, so you might as well start throwing the hate around now… *hides in a cave* :P

  20. Chevonne says:

    This is probably gonna step on the toes of the Warlocks. We are experiencing some homogenization between classes already. So they can suck it up, like the Rogues did when we got Camouflage. Locks bring Healthstones that take part of the load off the Healers. How would it be for Hunters to bring something similar? In RL I think of Native Americans and Pemmican. In Fantasy Lore, I think of LoTR and the Lembas Bread or the Ent Draught. I didn’t come up with a snappy name for it. So many things it could be called. “Ghostmeal” because despite what some will say, I think Ghostcrawler is a big hunter fan. Frostheim already has his cloak, so he’s out. It it was something we could gather, might it be called Arth’s Acorns? I thought about Arth’s Nuts but well you know. LOL

    • KorialDwarf says:

      neat idea but to make it even vaguely implementable it would have to share the same “slot” as health stones, that way you cant have like 6 healthstones essentially, and you don’t NEED to bring both to take the weight off you r healers

      • Chevonne says:

        True, it would probably need to occupy the same slot. Might be more reasonable in a heroics dungeon/scenario situation when you don’t always have a lock. But using my own guild as an example, we are casual raiders. We have one group thats probably the A team. But we put together a B team all the time and don’t always have a lock, where we frequently have 3 hunters.

  21. KorialDwarf says:

    one of my ideas for spec differentiation: what if every spec had a special interaction with their pet such as:
    BM: kill command is great and really fitting, but if we have to add something maybe a “control beast” ability that lets you control enemy beasts, it would be channeled and offer different strats for some bosses. it could control some adds(like the basilisks on horridon) or offer an interrupt on beast bosses(thinking of horridon again)

    MM:”flush out” the hunter commands their pet to flush out all nearby prey by causing all enemies in a radius to run in fear for 3 sec. (like duck and big game hunters)

    SV:”scavenge” the hunter commands the pet to scavenge food from enemies causing the pet to heal the hunter for a percent of the pet damage for like 5-10 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown

  22. KorialDwarf says:

    My thoughts on shots:

    TRANQ SHOT: MAKE IT USEFUL! sorry, i just hate that we have and its basically useless on all the fights that have enrages of one kind or another. i understand that cutting short a boss mechanic that’s intended to add difficulty to an encounter could be a bit op bit what if you had to stack tranq. shots to take him out of rage and keep the “debuff” up? that

    SERP STING: good as is

    COBRA/STEADY SHOT: i think these should have reduced cast time for standing still and the tooltip could have the min and max cast time, that way were encouraged to stand still during these shots but not overly penalized for not doing so.

    ARCANE SHOT: keep it relatively the same dps but replace it with an ammo based shot

    AMMO: give ammo its own special bag(as to not reduce our bag space) and make it an augmentation item, i.e. its not consumable but equipped, a lot of people have had this idea(namely kheldul) and they have great ideas about how cool ammo could be although i don’t think each ammo needs different damage modifiers.
    Ammo collection could be a matter of going on a quest for the components(or in certain cases the ammo type itself) and then getting them made into ammo via an npc or engineer. that way its not just ” go to the valor or rep guy and buy your raid ammo” although it would be cool if different ammo was optimal for different encounters and you’d have to switch either with a cool down or outside of combat.

  23. Mabon says:

    Personally I think each spec needs more flavor in terms of a theme that can be followed. BM isn’t lacking in this but I had an idea that I think might help add some more flavor to the other specs. My idea is simple make Stampede BM only, make snake trap SV only and buff it to do as much damage as Stampede, and for MM you could go with just a damage modifier that buffs their damage my a % for say 10-15 seconds, don’t know what you would call it (insert name here). Then each of the dps cool downs feel unique and fun. I also think adding a few glyphs to make some of your abilities work different would be cool too. Maybe something like glyph of explosive shot lowers the damage each one does but makes the ticks hit 2 other targets within 10 yards. I like these ideas because they add flavor to the specs. Also maybe change arcane shot to be SV only, give BM their own focus dump, and make Aimed shot MM’s focus dump, with no option to switch between arcane and aimed that would make the spec flow much better. What do you guys think?

  24. Kheldul says:

    Great ideas.

    There’s a product development process that involves throwing crazy ideas up on a wall and not tearing down anything “bad”.

  25. Al says:

    I’m in a very blunt and “buck up” kind of mood, so here goes.

    Spec suggestion 1: So play a melee class…rogue/monk/dk/warrior/retadin/feral…why do we need another one?

    Suggestion 2: Would be nice. Though there’s never been a balance in the past, on a class or spec level. Doesn’t mean Blizz shouldn’t keep striving for it.

    Suggestion 3: Hence why you chose to play a hunter.

    Suggestion 4: “Should”?? It would be nice perhaps to have enhanced tanking abilities for soloing purposes only. But if you want to tank……roll a tank…there’s no NEED for hunters to tank, thus “should” is totally inappropriate.

    Suggestion 5: There’s a contradictory redundancy in this, “remain pure dps-but let us off tank.” Forgive me but that’s not “pure” dps…as soon as you start tanking, that turns you into a hybrid, correct? I refer to point 4 again, if you want to tank, roll a tank.

    6 & 7: Fairly certain dedicated pvp spec(s) would aid the balance issues in suggestion 2 for obvious reasons. The biggest being that once you buff one, you don’t get the, “they’re OP in the other one,” backlash.

    • Dethstalker says:

      Your feedback is spot on. Especially with regards to one spec being a “melee” hunter and the other being a “tank”.

      I am definitely in the camp of “If you want to play a rogue… roll a rogue” and “If you want to be a “tank”… roll a “tank”.

      Hunters are a pure DPS class… make the specs feel and play differently but make them DPS.

  26. Chacha says:

    I’ve trudged through a lot of discussions along the lines of “if you want to tank then roll a tank”, but I have to ask, what if none of the tank classes appeal to me? I didn’t choose a hunter because it was a pure dps class incapable of doing anything else, nor was I against performing a different role. I didn’t want to dabble with demons or corpses, I didn’t want my hands in other people’s pockets or clasped together in holy prayers. I don’t know how many actually choose hunter because they absolutely never ever want to do anything else while playing that class. I chose it because I wanted a pet and a bow – I wanted to play the idea that hunters embody. And yes, Blizz’s idea of hunters is probably different from mine, but that doesn’t mean that these new suggestions from everyone are “wrong” or “stupid” or will “break the game” – they’re just another facet of the concept of a hunter in people’s minds. I’m not saying Blizz *should* give us new/extra roles, but we can ask why. Is there any reason why hunters should stay pure dps other than “they’ve always been that way”?

  27. Darkon says:

    my idea for the name of the project the hunter. upgrades/changes. for new. talents/abilitys. that everyone. respects. or the H.U.N.T.E.R. for short