Along with many other unpopular hunter changes proposed in the latest PTR, hunters are complaining a lot about the chain of Stampede nerfs which hurt hunters in all aspects of the game. Of course, the original Stampede nerf from the beta version was something that most hunters liked (and I hated) and perhaps it’s time to rethink that original nerf.

The original version of Stampede lasted half as long, had twice the CD, and did four times the damage. It was a massive burst dps, and the length of the cooldown made it unusable in arenas to prevent imbalance in PvP. It was awesome. But of course hunters wanted to be able to use it in PvP, and even PvE hunters just plain wanted to be able to hit their sweet new button more often, and at the time it seemed mostly in response to this hunter feedback that Blizzard reached the compromise to water the burst way down and make it usable more often and in PvP.

Since it seems, at least from my view, that all of these Stampede nerfs are due to strictly PvP problems, maybe the best solution is just to revert back to this original design. Remove Stampede entirely from PvP and bring it back to being a super huge awesome burst-on-demand button that’s usable once a fight.

What do you guys think?

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  1. W├Ątts says:

    Unless I am mistaken, even the original 10 second / 10 minute version would still be useable in Rated Battlegrounds. In its original form, Stampede would perhaps be the ultimate flag carrier assassination weapon, especially when paired with a bestial wrath chain of kill command, arcanes, readiness, and repeat. Does it not stand to reason that for that reason alone Stampede would again face all the same nerfs?

    Even though I didn’t do it myself to any serious degree (my teams always had everything), I loved that I could customize my Stampede to provide different buffs, debuffs, and CCs. The original nerf enabled those enhancements to be provided for twice as long to the raid or to the battleground team. Losing that quality is the part that I am most disappointed about.

    If Stampede is to continue in its current zero-buffs, pure damage burst form, I would favor the original 10/10 version semicolon however comma I am concerned that it would not evade the nerfbat for long.

  2. Mythriak says:

    bah… just remove it from the game and give us another dull shot (you can even call it Dull Shot for the sake of it’s dullness) and make it be almost as good as arcane shot or any of the signature shots we got… this is only blizzard again giving us something cool that really made the class to be noticed and then taking it away for the sake of a bunch of whiners

  3. sonicross says:

    Back to the original usable once in PVP, Arena, and Battleground settings. It’s a one time burst for most of those situations, which means you must choose wisely, other classes have similar defensive or offensive type options.

    We are a dps class, so let us have a dps burst, even if we can’t use it often.

  4. Mabon says:

    @Watts I understand what your saying but the thing is readiness won’t be working on BW anymore so its not a problem. @OP I agree with you, I’d like to see it go back to the way it was too, for the very simple reason that you can’t use readiness on any of your other dps abilities after 5.4.

  5. hillbillyhatifield says:

    I would take any kind of different setup now. It is pretty much useless. Just another dire beast really. A boring but nice looking shot. Not as good as a arcane or sig move, but there to fill up a space.
    I’m waiting on a shot just called “Shot”. It does X amount of damage plus weapon damage. To be honest how bland hunters are becoming, I’m waiting on them to rename all our shots “Blue shot”, Black shot”, “Streak shot”, “Buzzy shot” All do the same xp, so rotation is moot. Just hit buzzy, sig shot, and whatever bland shot you want. Doesnt matter they all do the same. Our burst and overall DPS is middle of all classes. And bliz says we are over bursting. So give us only single target shots, and only burst on world mobs, doesnt work on raid/dungeon/pvp. Then maybe they would quit fixing or breaking us every hotfix.

  6. Valmordang says:

    Make the stampede pets not cc able like the pally one that does wicked damage. But can’t change that mid expansion.
    Give hunters more ccs. So we can fear all those around us and shoot them dead without fear breaking. Like a spriest. Can’t change that mid expansion.
    Give hunters even more ccs so we can stun lock our prey and kill them without them being able to do anything. Warriors rogues Druids. But can’t change that mid expansion.
    Give hunters outrages DPS so we can bury the charts when our mage like abilities hit. Can’t change that mid expansion.
    What can you change mid expansion?

    Answer—– Hunters

    Love Val

    • sheppo says:

      This.

      I know other classes are being changed in respect to PvP, but I still can’t fathom how Blizzard can look at the abilities classes have and genuinely feel like there is any semblance of balance. PvP is broken, attempting to fix it breaks PvE and vice versa.

      Part of the problem is Blizzard appear to buckle to whiners all too easy, and the classes you mention all have an exceptionally whiny, vocal minority that increasingly get their way. Paladins especially. Look at the to-ing and fro-ing of changes that happen for paladins whenever there’s a patch. It’s disgusting.

      Perhaps we should all just go and demand beneficial changes and threaten quitting the game if we don’t get them in an effort to drown our other classes’ incessant arguing. Not that we will, but just to highlight their bad behaviour.

  7. Eillarius says:

    Agreed, Frost.

  8. Garfurion says:

    I think a 10min cooldown is too long, everyone would just use it at start and forget about it.

    It would be nice if it would offer some kind of strategic choice. For that it would need a 5 or 6min cooldown and it’s damage buffed so depended on the cooldown and duration it’s the same average dps it used to be.

    I don’t really care too much about the pet-stacking mini-game although it added a nice perk. Regarless of the cooldown it should be unusable in serious pvp so it doesn’t cause balancing issues.

    The current glyph which makes all pets copies of your active pet could be changed to affect duration, cooldown and dps to maybe give people some choice between burst and sustained dps.

    If they keep the damage like it is now they better remove it or it will be a constant reminder of the 5.4-nerf-patch.

    • Shin says:

      That sort of depends on the fight. If the fight was less then 10 minutes, then you’d have too choose to line it up with the cooldowns blown at the start or wait for a needed burst moment.
      If longer, then yes, at the start … but I have that with the 5 minute cooldown too. less then ten minutes means I can only fit in 2, more means 3. Ok, admitted, the final stampede with either cooldown can be picked more strategically often. And this happens a bit more with the short one.

      But in the end, 10 min cooldown that has some actual use or a 5 minute one that can basically be ignored without much effect …. I’d pick the 10 minute one every day.

  9. Stormovik says:

    If removing Stampede from PvP will make it worthwhile and fun to use again, I could live with that… But then I try to avoid PvP like a leprous elf, so such a change would have very little negative impact on me. Someone who PvP’s might have a different view.

  10. Med says:

    Making it a 10 min CD would put this on par with DK’s army of the dead with one big exception………..Army has a cast time and is a huge DPS loss to use in combat. An on demand burst with no cast time in certain encounters would be most welcome. Knowing that you are only going to be able to use it once during a fight puts some decision making back into a class that sorely lacks it.

  11. Blackspiral says:

    Eh… no.

    100% bad idea that would have nothing but nerfs thrown at us on top of the fact that a once a fight burst is just a horrendous idea to begin with.

    • Med says:

      A once a fight burst is a horrendous idea?……Bloodlust/Heroism should be removed then with that line of thinking.

  12. Fradin says:

    I would like to see it go back to it’s original form of a 10 min cool down as it is now you use it pretty much straight away after a few shots any way and once again 5 mins later in the fight so it isn’t taking much skill so what difference would it make if only once per fight ? you would then be thinking about what buffs or debuff’s are coming , whens hero or time warp coming, it would pay to use at a optimal time which would change depending on fight mechanic’s . In its current state you pretty much have to use it straight away otherwise you won’t get a 2nd stampede in which is limiting the period of use for the 2nd cast say you want it mid fight are you going to only use it once ? or twice and not really worry about the mechanics.

    • Med says:

      I would not even be opposed to leaving it in its current state if there was some sort of raid CD tied to it (crit/haste/mastery/defensive). Anything that would make you feel that pressing that button has some consequence other than a very minimal DPS gain.

      The strange twist here is I really believe Blizzard will not put much effort into hunters because they are a popular class. The attitude seems to be that people will play them anyway, so whatever we do really does not matter.

      My biggest fear is that the class will not get the attention it deserves until the numbers tell them that people are not playing it anymore.

      • Kaneli says:

        This is what I’m concerned about as well. Very low amount of people were playing warlocks, so they got a complete overhaul. But hunters are one of the most popular classes anyway, so they don’t really have a compelling reason to bother polishing them to a shine.

        I just hope I’m wrong with this line of thinking.

      • sheppo says:

        with the core changes we’ve had this expansion alone (no dead zone, casting whilst moving), and the thought of removing traps it’s not that hard to believe Blizz are genuinely unhappy with how hunters play.. either that or they just don’t know how to fix the class, so are just trying out ideas.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a full overhaul in 6.x

  13. Ril says:

    Oh, i’m all for it. right now what we summon is a stampede of tickling critters, totally boring. but maybe it should last 15, not 10 seconds, to match the rapid fire.

    also i’m fed up with pvp related nerfs that hurt us in pve, so imho this version of stampede should just be disabled in arenas. not in rbgs, because hunters aren’t exactly dangerous there and could need something unique and strong. and, the stampede pets are easily countered anyways.

  14. Noxxana says:

    I enjoyed the pre 5.3 stampede. Mostly for PVE.

    I’d be okay with a 10 minute cooldown AND 40 seconds duration (kind of dk army type). Yes, 40. But to be honest I doubt they would make it very powerful even with 10 seconds. Or even 5. I already literally can smell some “omfg!! i get owned every ten minutes by a hunter!!!!111 nerf hunters pls!!!” kind of whining…

    If you ever played a blood dk in PVE or some fuzzy healer kind of damage dealer caster whatever thingy you’ll notice that balancing is not the issue we’re talking about. In my opinion it’s the lack of hunter playing/loving devs and/or at least a lobby.

  15. Cel says:

    Agreed 100%. With the stupid stuff they are doing to hunters right now, I don’t even want to log in, these days. This kind of change had NO PLACE being instituted in the middle of a patch :(

  16. Venadin says:

    I only use stampede as a distraction now in pvp. It used to be an oh shit! Button with spirit mend or a finish them move. If they really intend it to be an unleash the stable ability, then revert it all the way back. A decent rated bg healer should know how to root/fear it. Anyways we as a community have to stop attacking our own specs and focus on mages, ferals, etc. How many forums are out there about BM pvp by fellow hunters? PVE-wise we really need a raid utility cd like other dps have. Maybe something like a Rain of Arrows cd that is just an aoe defensive cd.

  17. Dorianchika says:

    PVP applications leading to nerfs. Yeah, its sucks and I’d like to see a rebalancing of our shots. Frost, I do like your suggestion regarding Stampede and wouldn’t mind if it wasn’t useful in pvp. I’ve avoided pvp this expansion. I keep a set around, don’t get me wrong, but pvp just felt like banging my head against the wall. I couldn’t play my favorite spec, I always felt under powered and despised the inequality of abilities. Not interested in any of the cycles of abuse pvp leads to, thanks anyways.

    Oh, and if you use the Bat phone Frost, send my regards and the following message: Dear Blizzard, just make scattering shot a true interrupt and give the bells and whistles version to MM if you really have to.

  18. Onslaught says:

    Balance Stampede and make it a 75 talent. Give us AMoC or LR as our level 87 ability. They may need tweaking though.

  19. Aadyn says:

    I like the scatter shot idea but you will have range issues if you are more than 20 yards from the target.

    • Ril says:

      it looks like the glyph adjusts the range as well. for pve, it’s fine, although we’ll probably need to switch glyphs even more now between deterrence, mend pet, scatter and what might come in handy (i use pathfinding on lei shen H for instance).

  20. TheGreatDane says:

    Either Stampede has to revert to a real cooldown, either as dps for the hunter or a raidbuff as stormlash/skull banner or it has to go. If that means a 10 min cd like Army then so be it.
    As it is now it is an insult and a joke.

    But on a bigger scale the hunter as a class brings problems for game balancing:

    In pvp it is very powerfull to have a moving DoT, what our pet actually is, with built in cc (yes it can be cc’ed, killed etc, but still)
    In pve our pet brings nothing but problems: It often does not get the buffs we get, pathing is a constant problem. So all in all we do not get the dps benefit we should get from our pet in pve.

    So if Blizzard buffs hunters by buffing pet and pet-related abilities then it will have a disproportional effect in pvp which is neither good for hunters or for the game.

    The only realistical way that hunters can be strong in pve is if one of the non-BM specs is on top. This is the unfortunate price we have to pay for being THE pet class.

    All in all the hunter dilemma can only be solved with a total overhaul of the class

  21. Lirithiel says:

    How much more overhauling do you want??? I’m getting pretty tired of changing out abilities on my action bars 3 times an expansion. Use Intimidation -> ditch Intimidation, use Silencing Shot -> ditch Silencing Shot. Now probably back to Intimidation again although I may try Binding Shot for the first time if the proposed changes get implemented in 5.4. Stampede is just an afterthought for me at the moment. It doesn’t even feature prominently on my action bars anymore. I’d hardly even notice if it wasn’t on my action bars. Iim more concerned about the Scatter Shot idea Blizz are pondering. Just a big NO to making it an interrupt instead of a CC with a glyph even if it is a minor one. How many chain CC’s do we have currently? ONE – Scatter trap and even then its not the most reliable. Remove that and what are we left with?

    • TheGreatDane says:

      I agree with you on a personal level :), but this is the price all classes/specs have to pay because of Blizzard’s policy of having abilities work the same way in pvp and pve.

      Personally as a raider I don’t care if my interrupt is a silencing shot/glyphed scatter shot or whatever.

      I only care if hunters are good in raids, others only care about hunters viability in pvp. Others only care if hunters are good for doing old content, others play hunters because they can have a pet.

      Should Blizzard balance hunters for all or just some of the above?
      Should Blizzard balance hunters around good players? (both pve/pvp)

      I have a sneaking suspicion that Blizzard balances classes in pvp around a lower skill level than in pve. Because BM-hunters are relativly strong in the hands of a “bad” pvp’er and against “bad” pvp’ers.
      Stampede is a good example. It was never a such a big issue for good players, as there are many ways to nullify or mitigate the effect of a stampede in pvp.

      Blizzard probably also balances around the perception/experiences of other classes. And hunters have been percieved/experienced as very strong in pvp this expansion. So Blizzard nerfs hunters in pvp = makes all other classes happy as they are the majority.

      I have no good suggestions on how to fix all of the above, except for splitting pvp and pve up, but that will probably never happen :(

      • Lirithiel says:

        You see, as a pvp’er I care about hunters more when it comes to that aspect of the game although I can’t say that I don’t give a crap about the other areas as I do it all, just to a much lesser extent. I’d much rather prefer my hunter didn’t suck donkey balls in pve content but even more so in pvp. Blizz will never get it right because in eight or so years pvp has never been okay. It’s just too unbalanced and adding more classes hasn’t helped the issue in any way whatsoever. I have never been as happy with my hunter as I was in MoP but recent nerfs is making it less enjoyable, so much so that I’d rather farm honour gear on my recently dinged lvl 90 warrior and we all know how painful that experience can be XD

        All the other nerfs can go through, but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE Blizz don’t take away my Silencing Shot. I would even be okay to sacrifice Stampede for that to happen.

  22. f0nZi3 says:

    I like the idea of bringing it back to it’s original state for PvE. Maybe keep it at it’s current state for Arena’s and BG’s?? (even though I don’t PvP at all, even saying that last sentence kinda made me throw up a little)

    I still don’t understand why it’s so f’n hard for Blizzard to make abilities and actions act differently in PvP than they do in PvE. Oh, wait, they do make abilities and action act differently in PvP than they do in PvE. So, that just leads me to one conclusion… THEY ARE LAAAAAAZY!! Like, sitting in a hammock, drinking a pina colada and phoning in their development instructions to the coders kind of lazy.

    /rant