As always, this is still the PTR and things can still change — note how much things have changed back and forth already for this PTR cycle. But alas the latest incarnation of the patch has Blizzard following up on the big blue post and removing Readiness entirely from the hunter arsenol. The idea is they will somewhat compensate hunters by adjusting the mechanics of some defensive abilities, and letting Stampede go back to doing 100% pet damage in PvE only.

Whether this is a good balance isn’t something that can be easily determined — the wholesale removal of Readiness after balancing all hunter specs around it this expansion could have a lot of minor impacts that we won’t realize at first — though certainly the dps loss is the easiest and most noticeable.

Here are the latest changes:

  • Readiness has been removed entirely. Weep o ye hunters; weep and despair.
  • Deterrence now has a 3 minute cooldown and 2 charges (so you can use it twice in that period)
  • Disengage has had its cooldown reduced to 20 sec, down from 25 sec
  • Stampede damage is no longer reduced by 75% outside of arenas and rated bgs
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  1. Jaeger says:

    I didn’t really like that our DPS was balanced around our crazy Readiness opener. Hopefully, they adjust everything appropriately.

    The Deterrence change is good since that’s the only other use I’ve really had for Readiness besides the opener.

    Shorter Disengage CD is always nice. I’d like to see a shorter CD on our Interrupt though.

    Stampede is definitely a lot of additional damage compared to Live. However, I’m not sure how it compares to previous iterations of Stampede. I suspect that it’s still weaker than it was before they totally gutted it; it definitely doesn’t have the utility it used to have.

    We’ll just have to wait and see once they are done with mechanics changes and then see how they balance everything after that. Hopefully, they’ll get it all straightened out before launch. I’m tired of seeing hunters in the low middle.

  2. Wedge McCloud says:

    A bit disappointed with this change. Takes away something very unique and the compensations so far are underwhelming.

    As a note, the Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera talent, as well as the SoO CD reduction trinket both are currently not affecting Deterrence due to being coded for cooldowns and not recharge times. The lovely combined cancelaura/cast Deterrence macros also basically don’t work due to the second charge. Pressing the macro again just uses the next charge if it’s up.

    I know some of that will be fixed in time, but overall this is going to do nothing to take away the sting of losing such a core ability. They should’ve at least given it back to Marks.

    • pichu says:

      Readiness was not unique at all. mage’s cold snap and rogue’s preparation are exactly the same thing, something that resets the CD on something else, be it both offensive/defensive or just defensive spells.

      either it is unique or it is not. theres no very unique or less unique. Hunters have nothing unique apart from uninterruptable casted spells like CoS and SS, now that Slam is instant cast (I believe there are no more)

      • Wedge McCloud says:

        If you’re fine to just look at an ability by its effect description, then yes, it’s not unique. But keeping that stale way of looking at things, at this point in the game there is nothing unique to any class anymore.

        It may not have been entirely unique mechanically, but it was a more major part of at least Marksman’s identity and its wide range of uses defined it as something larger than similar abilities. It went deeper than than other refresh abilities like those of mages and rogues, where it merely refreshes defensive or control abilities). In the end, the decision is entirely defensive.

        Hunters were the only class presented with a decision that directly impacted DPS to a major degree based on when you popped it. You weren’t faced with just deciding when you wanted another CC or if you wanted to block something twice. If you wanted to use it for utility, you had to blow everything or lose damage.

        This is, I suspect, part of why it’s being removed, but it was a unique challenge that added a layer of depth that many, myself included, enjoyed. Readiness wasn’t one thing. It could create burst windows, fix a botched CC, allow survival through things most other classes would die to, and myriad other things. The list of situations is nearly endless and while endgame shuts out some of these possibilities due to the loss of DPS being too much, the choice is still there, especially in solo content which is undeniably a core strain in hunter DNA.

        And that’s what I feel is being lost in the shuffle right now. All the balance is focused on raiding. On our raid spots. But we’re also a solo class – for many, THE solo class – and we’ve slowly seen that toolkit hurt over the course of the expansion. Not so much that we can’t survive, but it’s slowly being chipped at.

      • pichu says:

        Saying that readiness adds a layer of depth is a delusion, under my point of view. It could, and it should have done that when they added it to every spec, but the truth is that readiness is just another rotational ability which was being used exactly the same way by all the raiding hunters. There’s no room for decision, there is an optimal way to use it, and everyone does it that way (at least the min/maxers). If anything it added some complexity to our opening, and here I can agree with you, our opening was unique :P. but complexity is not depth.

        I agree too that the hunter awesomeness is being lost patch by patch, because of class homogeneization. Hunters lost almost every of their awesome tools, or to be more precise, other classes got the same tools with the time. Everything that a hunter do other classes can do it better and easier. CC? locks can keep up to 3 targets on CC, 2 of them permanent. Slow? locks have the better slow in the game. AoE slow? DKs do it passively. Buffs? a balanced 10 man raid can have everything without hunters, not to talk about 25 man. And on top of that, every other pure DPS beats the hell out of a hunter in terms of DPS, which is the worst part

      • Skarn says:

        I agree with Pichu that Readiness doesn’t offer much “choice” or interest. Admittedly, this is for a raiding environment, but Readiness use is quite simple: Pop it for the DPS. You hit it very early on at the start of the fight, then once more later in the fight when your Rapid Fire/Crows have both just been used. That’s it. You can’t be bothered to save it for some sort of defensive use because you lose too much DPS from missing CDs.

        That’s why I don’t find it to be an interesting ability and why I don’t mind if it gets taken away, assuming we get compensated properly. Though frankly, we need more “buffed” than “compensated.”

        You make a good point about soloing, which is why I would prefer it moved to a defensive CD, only resetting things like Deterrence, Disengage, Traps, Master’s Call, Silencing Shot, Scatter Shot and similar. Thus it’s use isn’t mathematical, it varies by the needs of the fight. As an offensive CD, it’s dull and routine. As a defensive one, it is far more interesting and I prefer Blizzard would go that route over totally removing it.

  3. Blur says:

    So today’s 7-15 ptr notes changes deterrence once again, with no mention of charges and .08s CD. Deterrence

    • Wedge McCloud says:

      That’s mostly due to datamining quirks. It has the charges and recharge times proper on PTR, the tooltips on most sites won’t be updated properly yes because it requires changes that automation won’t cover due to the change from cooldown to recharge as they are not the same system.

  4. Fradin says:

    I think losing readiness is going to drop our dps even lower than blizzard thinks , no more 2 rapid fires in a row to increase the proc chances of our PPM trinkets. If you don’t use rapid fire of the bat we wont have the burst damage to get the ball rolling and if the trinkets don’t proc in that period we are going to lose more dps as there will be less shots fired when they eventually do proc. Are we mean’t to wait 10 mins after every attempt on a boss to make sure our trinkets have the best chance of procing ? I can see this being really bad for progression !.

    • Wedge McCloud says:

      It’s been said before, but proc rates and CDs and their importance is grossly overstated. While RPPM does benefit from Rapid Fire, this doesn’t cause wild diversions between proc rates and your proc rates are not going to be a major stumbling block in progression.

      Likewise, this is being kept in mind and tested for. Blizzard likes to test the waters for mechanics changes in tier bonuses and trinket procs, both of which are affecting Rapid Fire on the PTR in our 2pc and the 39% reduction trinket. Both combined in my own personal testing at one point had me firing Rapid Fire every 40 seconds just about.

      While tier bonuses alone don’t fix issues, they are balanced around and can be a sign of changes to come. I don’t have the most optimistic view of the latest changes, but even in our current condition we’re still better than we were in Cata.

      • sheppo says:

        Changing core abilities around a tier piece bonus is bad game design, and more importantly doesn’t truly fix the issues at hand. If feels like a temporary band aid.

      • Wedge McCloud says:

        Actually, that’s exactly what it is, and in the past when they experimented with balances, they’ve used that exact explanation. And it’s usually ended up working. If I recall correctly, both DPS Warriors and Paladins saw some class tweaking begin in their tier bonuses in Dragon Soul testing.

        Furthermore, its position as bad game design is debatable. As a medium that’s existed for only 30 years, and in particular this specific model of game genre existing for really only 10, there aren’t a lot of rules established, especially in a game like WoW where “good” game design hasn’t always worked twice. Balance can be a lot like lightning in a bottle.

        But in the end, this is all guess work. The tier and trinks are merely pieces. They iterate slowly and in pieces. Now that Readiness is gone, the effects will begin to come out the woodwork and they’ll respond. I’m underwhelmed, but far from throwing a table at this point.

  5. quivering says:

    I just tested these new charges on the latest PTR build, and each charge of Deterrence has its own 3 minute CD.

    • quivering says:

      It also doesn’t appear that the Courching Tiger talent is affecting Deterrence atm on PTR, so talented, it would be 2 minutes.

    • Ril says:

      this…. this means a buff to det, right? we’re averageing one (untalented) det per 1.5 min, before it was one per 2 min. nice.

      • Steady says:

        Wrong. Each charge has it’s own cooldown of 3min (base), and they don’t recharge simultaneously, only one after another. So, yes you can use Det each 1.5 min, but only 3 times in a row. After that you will have to wait full 3 mins to use. It will be like that:
        0 – Det
        1.5m – Det
        3m – Det
        6m – Det
        9m – Det

  6. Wätts says:

    Let me go over the list of things for which I intentionally (and not incidentally) use readiness…
    Freezing Trap, Wyvern Sting, Rapid Fire, Master’s Call, Deterrence, Disengage, Bestial Wrath (and Kill Command at the same time), Silencing Shot, Lynx Rush, and Murder of Crows.

    – Freezing Trap: Ouch, that sucks especially for PVP and flubbed important PVE CC.
    – Wyvern Sting: ^
    – Rapid Fire: Eh, okay. I’m not a great hunter so this isn’t a big effect on me. Compensate me and I’m happy that I don’t have to spend the mental energy on hitting it a second time.
    – Lynx Rush: Eh, from my limited perspective this is fine. Dps loss, but compensate and we’re okay.
    – Murder of Crows: ^
    – Deterrence: Given the addition of charges, AND assuming that after Talents it is still available on a 1-minute cooldown, this is just dandy. Being a baddie, I don’t even use the cancelaura macro. I right-click it off my buff bar or just let it finish.
    – Master’s Call: FUUUUUUUUUUUUU PVP and repeated Sand Traps on ToT Council!
    – Bestial Wrath: Seeing as how the ability to have heavy burst is far superior to sustained dps if the end numbers are equal after the fight, this is a painful change. But maybe it’ll work out with the buffing of Stampede? Maybe? PVP will still suffer, too. =(
    – Silencing Shot: Often invaluable to double-up when trying to burn down a healer, be it Arena or BGs. Even if only MM would get it, this is another blow to PVP burst capability.

    Well, I guess they’re succeeding in nerfing our PVP while keeping our PVE okay. It really sucks to lose our double-burst and burst-on-demand though.

    • sheppo says:

      It affects two abilities that give us CC-breakers. As a class that’s already relatively low on the CC-breaker count it’s a bit sad to think we’re now another two down.

      Yes, I know it’s PTR, but come on Blizzard. At least attempt to do some semblance of class balance at some point in this game’s history.

    • Wolarsen says:

      …and Feign death
      …and Kill shot
      …even Glaives and Binding shot

      • Pengalor says:

        Don’t forget Exhil, healers used to love me because I could take care of my screwups or keep myself up so they could worry about other classes with much worse self-healing. Guess now I’ll get one and I’ll just have to hope it works out.

  7. Xeran says:

    I am actually fine with the removal of Readiness.

    This change is going to make it easier to balance the class in the future. They can finally make abilities do what they are supposed to do without needing to take Readiness into account.

    I am going to miss being able to double Disengage though, and I really think Exhilaration, Master’s Call, and Feign Death should have charges as well.

    Keep in mind they haven’t hit the numbers phase yet, so I’m pretty sure we will be seeing hefty buffs to Kill Command, Explosive, and Chimera. Wouldn’t be surprised if Black Arrow and Aimed get tweaked either.

    • Ril says:

      yeah it looks like master’s call, a base ability mind you, was completely forgotten. i’m all for charges for these kinds of skills, especially disengage.

  8. Winterhawk says:

    Sorry about that friendship bracelet Frost!

  9. Ril says:

    i’m not too sorry about the loss of readiness… we already got a buff to the det cooldown, and i was hoping for a charged disengage as well.

  10. Lirithiel says:

    Wait, what? How is losing the ability to double Disengage or Deterrence compensated with 2 charges on Deterrence (which is fine and dandy) but increasing the CD by 1 minute or reducing the CD on Disengage by a WHOPPING 5 SECONDS??? That’s not compensation, its a kick in the groin. Okay with the Stampede change as it was unbalancing an already insanely unbalanced pvp world even more or so it is said. Look up the meaning of compensate, Blizz and come to the party…

  11. Garfurion says:

    The whole readiness removal will end up as a big hunter nerf. Not in terms of damage because they will probably compensate us for that but in terms of flexibility and survivability we are loosing a lot. At the very least abilities survival abilities like Feign Death and camouflage should get charges as well and the cooldowns of our CC abilities should be reduced.

    If this goes life we can all look forward to higher repair-bills.

    • Matheus says:

      This. No one talked about Feign Death and Camouflage. These are very important uses of the Readiness spell.

  12. Rayne says:

    At the end of the day, this is going to end up like every other buff and nerf we’ve seen. They will be implemented and then, after some live game testing and countless forum posts regarding how good or bad it is (depending on perspective of the player of course) more buffs or nerfs will come. The question is, how long will it take them to correct it…

    I’m not a fan of change in general… the last thing I want to do after I’ve figured out kind of what I’m supposed to do in a situation is have to figure it out again because the method I used before no longer works (really upset me when I had to relearn how the battle the epic pet trainers, etc…) but this is the nature of the game.

    I’m not sure how this is going to affect PvE and PvP in the long run but the loss of key CD resets will have to be seriously evaluated when this goes live.

    • pichu says:

      PVE wise it will end in hunters doing the same or more damage, while getting rid of the whack-a-mole that is our opening. We have the same or even more burst, but for a shorter time. The deterrance change is a net nerf (suposing that you use it on CD, which you rarely do in PVE) until they fix CTHC. But on the other hand you will not “waste” your readiness in a defensive spell if you need to use deterrance back to back for any reason. The disengage change is a net buff PVE wise. I can’t recall the last time I’ve used readiness to disengage twice in a row (never tbh). About the rest of spells formerly affected by readiness, they have a very marginal use if any,(master’s call, camo) so noone will miss the chance to use them twice on a PVE environment.

      Most of this changes are severe PVP nerfs, from damage to survivality, but I don’t really care about PVP :P

  13. ur'kidding says:

    Losing Readiness is a blow on a bunch of fronts, but these changes while they help, really don’t go near far enough to compensate the class. I think as the PTR mechanics become more evident Blizz will need to really think this one through. IMHO this is not a good thing and the changes are pretty far reaching given the number of items Readiness resets. Best thing to do right now is get on the PTR and take these changes for a spin, then let Blizz know what you think of them.

  14. Beergasm says:

    Blizzard’s class mechanic changes are like a bi-polar girlfriend who threatens to kill you one day then apologizes the next. How about making minor changes instead of, I dunno, completely removing one of the most important cooldowns we have?


  15. Rangus says:

    Yeah! One less button to mess with.

  16. Arzen says:

    Meh, I am fine with the removal of readiness. It was “neat”, but you always knew that we were getting screwed elsewhere, be it dps or CD times, to compensate for our Readiness ability. I would much prefer to have baseline higher damage and shorter cooldowns, as a general rule, than have all that nerfed so that we can “pop readiness” during the opening on a boss.

    I would bet dollars to donuts that removing readiness will allow them to do more fun things with hunters, and we’ll be better off in the long run. There’s no way that readiness didn’t make them have to overthink every single new ability or ability change they were considering. “Okay, hunters would really like X, or would really like a shorter CD for Y, but how will readiness effect that?”

    Again, I liked Readiness, but I think getting rid of it will be a net positive for hunters.

    • Tarrson says:

      yup i think you hit the nail on the head with this evaluation. with readiness every thing they add or change they have to ask that. i believe like you on this one…just might take a bit.

  17. Valmordang says:

    What I am asking blizzard will be why are hunters facing such a major play change during an expansion. For when asked about things like some classes ability to stun lock you to death blizzard responds with cant change that mid expansion. Rare pandarian pandas cast the round house kick which you scatter just after they do it. Then they cast healing mist which must be interrupted or silenced. Then the hunter hits readiness. This is a most because if your damage is high that panda will round house kick you to death then heal to full.
    They are immune to traps like a lot of plate pvp classes. They are unaffected by powershot or explosion trap knock back.

    So half way through expansion we have to learn a new strategy for half the creatures.
    Lastly hunters seem to be taking the brunt of this op bs. However I have one geared 90 and hold my own but still get stunned to death and an ungeared 90 hunter that is cannon fodder in bgs. Hunters originally were low on DPS and had low survivablity. Most hunters die to bleeds and diseases as they have no way to get rid of them. Death Lnights seem to have more ranged abilities then hunters. But most of all they removed hunters ability to stun lock our opponents. But all other classes seem to retain them.

    Unsubscibed is the new way of the hunter.

    Love Val

  18. Noxxana says:

    I wish I had the faith like some of you. Seriously, I hope you’re right and I’m completely wrong. I’d like to believe there’s something like a “bigger plan”, that there’s someone taking care of and making sure everything is balanced, mature and well tested. In the light of the last three patches (5.1-5.3), the way the “compensation” for the removal of BM’s reduced pet cooldowns turned out in reality, the headless moving around of talents back and forth, nerfing, buffing, stealth nerfing, “unpredictable” unbalances from the start that everyone seems to notice except Blizzard, that “well, we still don’t understand why hunters would want to interrupt anything, but hey, if you all get pissed, alright, you get your interrupt baseline, so shut up now kids…” attitude, the conclusion that the removal of Readiness from all specs solves the problem of being too strong for BM (sure, your toe won’t hurt any longer if you cut off the leg)… compensating an ability that affects literally all other abilities with the exception of Stampede and itself (of course) by altering two or three def cooldowns and buffing overall damage…
    Keeping that whole picture in mind: How excactly is it possible for a mental healthy adult to come to a conclusion like “Yeah, relax, they know what they’re doing :)”. Please let me know. And no, alcohol is no answer.

    • Med says:

      I would love to know the answer to this myself……..The whole “They know, they will fix it, they wouldn’t let that happen” mindset makes no sense to me. But I guess we have to consider the sources when people make those statements….If all they are doing is LFR, light PVP, and brawlers guild, they generally have no clue as to what all these changes are actually doing nor do they care as much.

  19. Papaoomowmow says:

    Apologies for wildly off topic noobish question, but googling didn’t yield any answers thus far.

    I got back into WOW to try out Mists a few months ago. Attempts at gear catchup (514 right now) and haven’t raided a lick yet.

    Want to begin raiding now. Would prefer to jump right in to normal TOT to at least get some of the shadopan assault rep gear, but I’m told I’m only eligible to try a few lesser raids because I have yet to complete required achievements.

    Any suggestions? Where do I check to discover what those achievements might be? Is it just that you have to do beginning raids before they allow entry into tougher difficulty (which I guess would makes sense)

    TIA for any answers.

    • Skarn says:

      If your gear is at 514, you are way past good enough for LFR and also very strong for Normal raids. You’re a touch low for Heroic raids, but you’re not looking for that right away anyway.

      There are no achievements or any other pre-requisites to enter the Throne of Thunder. You just find a group and walk in. Some PuGs or guilds may request that you have achievements that show you’ve cleared the place before, but those are not a necessity! Obviously, the only way you’ll get that achievement is to clear ToT.

      If you are trying to queue for LFR, then you’ll need to start at ToT part 1. You can’t do parts 2-4 until you do the first one. Just go in order and it should go pretty quickly.

      • Papaoomowmow says:

        Thanks Skarn. I’ll try just get into a TOT pug I guess. The guild I joined is huge but seems 98% of it is leveling alts who want the perks of a 25 guild. Little or no raiding going on.

        DDon’t want to run this huge OT into the ground, but despite my gear score (all from LW, valor points, and heroic scenarios), when I open the Raid Finder I’m only offered 3 highlighted choices. Mogushan, The Dread Approach, and Last Stand of the Zandalari.

        There are 6 others listed, up to Pinnacle of Storms but all of those are greyed out and when I select one of those it says I haven’t completed the required achievements to enter.

        Ah well, I must be doing something wrong…not the first time…lol…will try to pug tot. Thanks again.

      • Noxxana says:

        As Skarn pointed out you have to clear the LFR parts in a specific order (for the first time only!) that’s why the other options are not available. The starting point for ToT LFR is “Last Stand of the Zandalari”. Gear requirement for this is 480 (no need to worry for you). I’d suggest to do the others, Mogu etc., as well since it’ll be a little practice and you’ve to go there for the legendary quest line anyways.

      • Papaoomowmow says:

        Thanks much, Noxxana. That’s EXTREMELY useful.

        As for nerfs….

        Frost’s site is an incredible gift to the Hunter gaming community. May any of us begin to have given so much for so little.

        I do understand he’s a gaming theorist and correctly seeks balance.

        Me, I am on the other extreme. If my first auto shot in a raid wiped out every trash mob in the instance, I still wouldn’t mention the need for a hunter nerf…lol

        When I hear anyone from any class refer to themselves as OP, my first thought is enjoy it while you can…won’t last forever.

        I last played PvP (and loved it) when hunters as a class were suffering in PvP. Have no recent experience, but am surprised Blizz feels a need to downsize their burst nowadays…and that it drifts into the PvE experience at all. From my scant recent experience Hunter DPS is pretty good but far from any definition of OP. Don’t know enough to judge however.

        I do know Hunter is far and away the class I prefer to play. Pure fun.

        Thanks again.

  20. Focushot says:

    Taking Readiness away totally not only is going to screw over PVE hunters but also PVP hunters, it was bad enough we we’re having a hard time keeping up with other classes in arena, now that we can’t use Readiness, we pretty much are unless in pvp. Even if they do range our damage, we just lost a whole lot of burst which you need in pvp.

    I wouldn’t be shocked to see even more sub loss if this patch goes live.

    • f0nZi3 says:

      I keep preaching this but no one seems to either understand what I’m recommending or be able to give me a solid answer as to why this recommendation would be a bad idea.

      So, here it is again (and no, telling me that Blizzard would have a ‘difficult time coding for this’ is not a valid reason in my opinion):

      I posted this in the Blizzard Hunter forums and was told this would be a coding nightmare for Blizzard. Maybe it would be, maybe it wouldn’t be – I don’t do coding so I wouldn’t know. All I do know is the following recommendation seems to be the best option in relation to balancing PvP and PvE as this would separate them entirely. Also, as for coding this (and again I may be wrong here and thinking too simplistically) I believe the basis for this was already implemented when they gave us a secondary spec choice (Copy/Paste existing code, edit and make changes, then test?). Anyways, here it is:

      “Here’s the way I have envisioned balancing PvP and PvE. There would be a third tab added to the current two choices of specialization; one that is PvP only. You still get to choose the spec you want to play (say you’re a Priest and you want to heal for PvP, you would either choose Holy or Disc from within that third PvP only tab). Within that dedicated PvP spec, you have a tree of very similar talents and glyphs to choose from. But the key here is that those baseline abilities, talents and glyphs are ALL tailored to PvP ONLY. Joining a BG or Arena would result in your PvP spec being automatically activated. Inside of a dungeon, raid or scenario, the PvP spec would be automatically deactivated and the player would not be able to switch to it. If he/she was switched out of an active PvP spec (say joined an LFR but was still in their PvP spec), the player would be alerted that they need to choose from one of the other two PvE specs and activate it.

      What this effectively would do is allow the player to choose what role and spec they want to play in PvP and if any “balancing” issues arise as a result of PvP, they can be handled within that PvP spec (via the abilities, talents and glyphs that exist for that PvP spec). Likewise, if there are any “balancing” issues in PvE they would be handled in the base abilities, talents and glyphs for the PvE specs.”

      Personally, if Blizzard wants to get serious about PvP and attract new players and keep existing players, I really don’t see any other alternative. Blizzard developers can either sit there and constantly vacillate back and forth about how to balance all classes and specs for PvP and PvE as each new tier/patch/expansion is released, or they can get serious and fully separate the two (PvP and PvE) without losing the uniqueness of each class and without losing each individual spec choices for both PvP and PvE. I mean, the problem is only going to get worse as it stands now if nothing is done to fully separate PvP and PvE (as I have recommended above). As gear item levels increase, so does the problem of balancing classes/specs and their unique abilities for both PvP and PvE.

    • Noxxana says:

      It will for sure be a coding nightmare. On the other hand… they’re already facing a coding nightmare for the last eight years and it probably won’t stop til the end of WoW. So instead of trying to wed a pear with an apple, constantly pissing of people that way and ending up with still no balance – it might be wise and worth to go through this nightmare. It is a good idea.

    • soulbounds says:

      Lol, Hard to keep up with other classes in arenas… Currently one of the strongest dps if not THE strongest dps in arena. Stop whining for gods sake

  21. Pengalor says:

    Yay, newest PTR build has more nerfing and no buffing. Getting tired of this crap. Now our soloing is getting targeted with the change to Glyph of Mending. Someone should tell Blizz it was a Blood DK that solo’d Sha of Fear, not a hunter.

    • Noxxana says:

      I’m used to getting damaged for the purpose of “balancing” pvp (lol). This one is new. It’s just a nerf. For no obvious reason. It just hurts… hunter soloing, the only thing the (old) glyph is used for. Huh? I don’t get it.

      May we overreact now? Please.

      • Ril says:

        yeah i just dont get that one. why? what for? what was wrong with it?

        maybe they’ll buff mend pet to the current gylphed status, since the unglyphed mend pet is just weak? because that wuould be the only logical reason for this change.

  22. Med says:

    No doubt this is once again related to a PVP issue…….I really hope the upcoming “compensation” does not come in the form of “buff hawk, buff arcane” yet again…..

    • Lirithiel says:

      Lol, how is that a pvp nerf? Show me one hunter that uses Glyph of Mending for pvp and I’ll say noob or said hunter forgot to respec. And pray tel us Blizz, what made the glyph so OP that you targeted it for the nerfbat?

      Perhaps Val is right – Unsubscribed is the new way of the hunter…

    • Noxxana says:

      Latest (and good) blue news regarding the absurd glyph:

      “The plan is that the glyph will make the Mend Pet tick twice as fast, last the same duration effectively doubling the amount healed, and no cooldown.” Source:

      I hope they understand that the new glyphed mend pet would have to heal 50% over 10 sec, otherwise it will just tick for 2,5% every second instead of 5% every 2 seconds, which is exactly the same amount – just faster.

  23. Ril says:

    the glyph will double the heal. it will tick for the same amount and duration but twice as fast, and the CD is supposed to be going away.

    • Noxxana says:

      Anyone else thinks thats… weird? Blizzard humor? I mean, what’s live on PTR is a glyph that nerfs pet healing by 60%, it ticks twice as fast, yes, for five seconds, and then you can’t heal your pet for five seconds at all. There’s literally a big flashing neon sign above it saying NO. NO. DON’T. And then it turns out this… accidentally (?)… got live instead of the amazing new glyph they ACTUALLY wanted to create (no nerf, no cd, double amount of heal, ticks twice as fast, etc.) – the glyph that’s much better than what we have now. Funny.

      So… is it safe to assume they didn’t mean to get rid of Readiness? It just happened by mistake maybe. What they actually tried to achieve was to reduce the cooldown of Readiness by 2,5 minutes and redesign it to even reset Stampede (which will release all of your 55 pets even from the stable), your potion cds and Readiness itself.

      It’s hard to test that way.

      • Noxxana says:

        Reminds me I forgot to post my suggestion for the new Glyph of D-Day… “Replaces Stampede. Summons all pets of all hunters on your realm. Works only on outdoor Pandaria beaches infested by Nazis.”

      • Ril says:

        i think that the current ptr version is bugged/wrong. as far as i understood the bluepost, they intend the glyph to make mend pet tick twice as fast but keep duration (10s) and heal per tick, which doubles the effectiveness of mend pet. in other words this would be a slight buff (current status is +60 heal)

      • Peter says:

        Blizzard even had the guts to claim the datamined tooltip was wrong, while in reality what was datamined was actually what was live on PTR.

        Get you stories straight please … :-)

        Now seriously, I do believe that what went on PTR was a mistake, and it truly was intended to be just a double healing glyph. But it shows that Blue was not aware of the design intent either …

  24. Browning2 says:

    You have to be excited about the new blue post about making the 3 hunter specs play/feel different however….

  25. Noxxana says:

    Let’s just pray they don’t let the warlock dev touch this.

    • Dibbler says:

      I couldn’t disagree more. I think they did an amazing job overhauling the warlock class to make each spec feel unique and different without compromising the overall identity of the class. They also got a bunch of totally new tools. To be honest I think did TOO good a job, because it’s probably not going to be possible for them to give the same level of treatment to other classes that could use it, and that’s disappointing.

      Also, according to ghostcrawler on multiple occasions, there is no “warlock” dev. All the devs work on all the classes to avoid favoritism and a sense of working against each other.

      • f0nZi3 says:

        So… what you’re saying is that all the Devs at Blizzard have never played a Hunter in PvE and/or just hate Hunters in general?

        Got it! Now all these nerfs start to make sense.

  26. Noxxana says:

    That doesn’t explain druids. There must be a druid dev at least.

    Seriously, I just don’t wanna wake up one day playing a different class. If I’ve desire to do so, I start leveling an alt. I admit it’s a matter of opinion of course. Looking at the way they handled the changes just from the start of MoP and what’s coming next with 5.4 (based on the facts available now) I’d rather tend to say… better don’t touch it. We’re exciting enough. Fix some bugs. Go change… I don’t know, any classes left out there that didn’t get the “dk treatment” ^^ (except hunters!) Add a third recource to death nights.

    • Dorianchika says:

      My question at this point is: Did our complaints of button bloat lead to an assessment by Bliz that said “Readiness could be eliminated to simplify everything (PVP, button bloat, & shot homogenization).”?

      I thought they loathed major changes to classes because it was a leading cause of subscription loss/player disgruntlement. IMO, Readiness counts as a major class change, and I don’t see the changes made so far as repairing the dps/burst loss.

      No, the sky isn’t falling, but without Readiness and Stampede’s previous utility… Well, its certainly more boring to be a hunter. I guess thats a flavor complaint. I’d appreciate the signature shots hitting much, much harder than my arcane filler and cobra/steady shots.

      • Noxxana says:

        Short answer: No.

        I think they clearly understood that the “button bloat problem” was/is related to “rotation buttons”. Like Blink Strike in it’s original form. The way they treat this and the reason why they address it is pretty much different from all the PVP-related nerfs we’ve seen and will see. Stampede rendering nearly useless (button is still there), Silencing shot nerf (button is still there, thanks god), etc. Nobody was complaining about the Readiness button. I mean… no hunter.

      • Rayne says:

        Noxxana is of course correct. It wasn’t that any hunter would complain about the ability to reset all of our CD’s, even at the expense of a more complicated startup rotation etc… it was all the other classes complaints. Lets face it. Hunters ability to Silence, scatter/trap, deterance, pet special, BW, KC etc then reset was just too much for other classes to handle despite the fact that Blizzard has nerfed us with regards to PvP (spillover to PvE) every patch since the expansion came out. We have double burst and double defensive CD’s at will. I don’t know the other classes as I only play a hunter for main so I don’t know what they have. I do know that they do not have a restriction as to how many times they can use an ability (cyclone, polymorph etc) but that they experience diminishing returns. Once a hunter has used their abilities, they are done until the CD is up. I think it’s too much to take away but we have to remember that we no longer have minimum range and we have full use of all of our abilities on the move which are very significant. The first one was a needed change but persisted through 4 expansions and the second I still think won’t last.

        And I agree with you in that they should not be making this kind of a change during a patch and only should be considered for a full expansion release. They have made enough changes during this expansion already that are significant enough. I’m very frustrated with having to relearn things every other month or so because they have taken something away or changed how something works. I’m not going to stop playing my hunter but I’m not having a lot of fun with the constant inconsistency and apparent lack of class understanding by Blizzard.

      • Peter says:

        Just a small remark. The “button bloat problem” is not a problem that Blizzard ever acknowledged existed. I know Frost is a big believer in this, and has many followers, but there are also a lot of hunters who believe more = more.

        Blizzard has been pretty silent on this, except that they feel non-rotational, yes non-rotational, buttons are a bit bloated. Also they said in the same post that many hunters would feel sad if abilities would go away.

        Note, I’m not taking sides yet, but don’t assume Blizzard feels that there is something like button bloat. Also don’t assume this is something all hunters feel is the case. :-)

      • Noxxana says:


        What about that (on Twitter): “Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 29 Mai
        @Sallavarian If those glyphs feel mandatory then it doesn’t help with the button bloat. Consider hunters…”

        It’s a recent message from Blizzard’s infamous Greg Street aka Ghostcrawler using the term “button bloat”. Doesn’t match my definition of being pretty silent and not acknowledging the existence of a problem called “button bloat”.

        You may answer he has no clue what he’s talking about, but that’s quite a different topic ;-) BTW I also don’t feel overwhelmed by my hunter abilities or buttons and I for sure don’t want to miss any of them. Especially the “non rotational” ones.

  27. DrFille says:

    Off topic…
    Is there any news on WHH?
    I would love to hear that WHH is coming back in good style.

  28. eric says:

    latest PTR has disengage listed without combat now, woot!

    • Noxxana says:

      Yep, I love it.

      The mend pet glyph works as intended now, too. You get 50% over 10 seconds, ticking every second, no cd. And the healing animation (on pet) got little green crosses instead of the red ones.

  29. Mawdeuce says:

    Glyph of the Lean Pack – a major glyph that literally nothing? I rarely ever use AotP even after a raid wipe since most classes have some sort of talented or baseline speed boost. Any LFR group that sees AotP automatically screams NOOB and instantly kicks. Is this more of the same we can expect to come?

    • Noxxana says:

      It might be a placeholder for the Glyph of Autokick, which kills you instantly and kicks you out of LFR if you activate pack in combat.

  30. bahzob says:

    Through Cataclysm I was fiercely critical of Blizzard and their so-called lead “designer”.

    The quotes are deliberate, there is no semblance of design in what Blizzard do. It is just suck it and see.

    MOP has been a total disaster in this respect, with all classes getting a non-stop succession of changes.

    This is totally inexcusable. In the pre-launch of MOP people were already posting videos of how retarded double/triple BM hunter could be in arena. The fact that Blizzard are still trying to sort this out now is just a complete and utter joke.

    All the changes above won’t sort things out. What is needed is more substantial.
    > Sack Ghostcrawler. He doesn’t have a clue
    > Actively engage top players of the game in design. They have a far deeper understanding than Blizzard do. Example would be Kripparrian, if he had been involved in MOP design the game would be be way better and he might still be playing WOW.

    If this doesn’t happen then just give up. I have.

  31. blix says:

    Well , this will hurt a lot in pvp. At least give bm hunt a real healing ability not that shity pet heal , not to mention i dont use spirit beast …. so no heal for me.
    I can imagine how 2v2 will go from now on , im playing with a feral , basically ill be focused , and forced to deter quick , and then finished off , with all disingage roots and pet stun , web , etc , thouse beeing despelable abilitys or , canceled by damage.
    If they wanna make up for that they should think of some real life restore ability on the run , like all other clases really have.
    Dont think will be that fun in pvp next patch.

  32. Deithwen says:

    Was like how about I check out that wow thing, maybe I can give my hunter a shot again after a year and a half. Saw that crap on official site, left with Yao Ming face asap. Thanks for keeping that addiction dead, I guess :D