Tabana spotted a series of tweets about hunters from WoW PvP designer Holinka. He talks about a couple of changes being made for PvP reasons, that have some PvE implications — fortunately they seem to be considering the PvE implications.

Specifically he clarified that the shared diminishing returns for Scatter Shot, Freezing Trap and Wyvern sting announced for patch 5.3 will be reverted (thus we should never see it). However, to compensate, BM will be losing the 30% reduction to pet cooldowns that comes from the BM Exotic Beasts.

Holinka then made a fascinating clarification: responding to another person who complained this was a PvE nerf, he then said that pet abilitiesused in PvE would have their base cooldowns reduced — he didn’t explicitly say by how much, but in theory we’d hope to see the full 30%.

The interesting effect of this is that BM in PvE should (in theory, if it’s a full 30% reduction) see no change in their or their pet’s dps. But MM and SV will suddenly have reduced cooldowns for their pets’ special abilities.

Will this mean a tiny boost to MM/SV dps? Or is it irrelevant because MM/SV pets won’t have enough focus to use their abilities any more often anyway (since they often don’t have enough focus to use them now).

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  1. Zeherah says:

    I ran a test sim with rabid reduced to 90 sec CD instead of 2 min and for SV it came out to about a 350dps increase.

    • Hotzenplotz says:

      I’m glad to see hunters getting a small buff. I have been noticing hunter DPS has not been scaling with gear as well as other classes have.

      • Frostheim says:

        Keep in mind, hunters are getting a far more significant buff with the other 5.3 changes : )

  2. HuntressRachel says:

    So will this change make the new 5.3 Blink Strikes more appealing to SV or will SV still take Murder of Crows?

    • Dibbler says:

      This change doesn’t interact with blink strikes. Blink strikes increases the damage of pet Basic Attacks (claw, bite, etc…), while Rabid increases melee attack speed (more auto-attacks).

  3. Kheldul says:

    This not-quite-announced chained change is a bit confusing and I’d love to have some authoritative statements around it. I’d really like to know what are considered PvE vs PvP abilities. There could be many PvE pain points there.

  4. Iridar says:

    Having separate pet cooldowns for PvE and PvP is bad mechanic, and I doubt it’ll be implemented since it’s very unobviuos (like any part of this game is, lol).

    • Frostheim says:

      He’s not talking about separate cooldowns — he’s suggesting that pet cooldowns that are useful in PVE (dps ones like Rabid) will have their CDs reduced for both pvp and pve. But pet abilities that are really pvp only — like stuns and snares — will not have the cooldown reduced.

      • Iridar says:

        Aaah, that makes much more sense =)

  5. Venadin says:

    I was in that tweet chain and I feel like it’s important as a community we make sure they don’t break something accidentally with a bandaid fix. Obviously the root of the problem is making readiness baseline, but the required fix would be pretty major and possibly need the attention spent in a beta rather than a ptr to get it right.

    • ironthumbs says:

      Have to agree with you Venadin. I know that I’ll likely get hounded for this, but Readiness is a pain in the arse as far as I’m concerned. Causes way more problems than the benifits allow.

      • Iridar says:

        Agreed. It just shouldn’t refresh DPS cooldowns or something. I have to have two macros for an opener, because my opening sequence doesn’t fit into one macro. It’s just plain bad design.

        Perhapse, removing a couple of tasteless buttons from our rotation should fo the trick.

  6. Pichu says:

    “Will this mean a tiny boost to MM/SV dps? Or is it irrelevant because MM/SV pets won’t have enough focus to use their abilities any more often anyway (since they often don’t have enough focus to use them now)”

    Special abilities /= Basic attack. The CD on those will stay the same, ergo Focus regen will have nothing to do with it. The only dps affecting change is the Rabid CD reduction.

    • Jabari says:

      The only dps affecting change is the Rabid CD reduction.

      False. On any fight with target changes, pet abilities like Lightning Breath, Dust Cloud, and Acid Spit can be a substantial contribution to raid DPS. Getting those debuffs appiled ASAP is highly desirable.

      (Particularly Dust Cloud. If you’ve never used a Tallstrider in a raid you’re doing it wrong! *laugh*)

      These (and other utility spells such as Spirit Mend, which I use a ton) all need to be on their current “BM Cooldowns”.

      • Anonymous says:

        I usually see everything from a 25man PoV, where all those debuffs, but the armor debuff are brought by other classes a lot more efficiently. It should also affect Borrow Attack and Froststorm breath, which are also DPS abilities. (Btw I use a tailstrider for 25 man HC Horridon adds :P)

        Anyway I wanted to point out just the changes. They said clearly on twitter that they want this to be a PVP nerf, but not a PVE one, so the same way they lowered the CD on rabid they will reduce it on the other specials that have no effect on PVP (or very marginal effect), if they hold to their word.

  7. Kheldul says:

    Clearly if they affected basic attacks that would be ridiculously bad for BM.

    There are quite a few special abilities that contribute to PvE, plenty that would be primarily PvP, and plenty that are both. I’m also guessing that Exotic Abilities and Bonus Abilities are not affected in any way, even though some can be used with some PvP effectiveness (e.g.- Monsterous Bite). Though the point is to reduce pet CC/Intr/Stuns.

    Cooldowns on abilities are what make or break using a different pet. It’s a diverse set of abilities out there, but they have never been well-balanced. Some stuns last only a tiny amount of time and have ridiculously long CDs. They could have decided to do an edit on them and make them a bit more balanced.

    And mind you! PvE is not just raw DPS. There are def CDs avail, buffs, debuffs, etc. which play into PvE.

  8. ril says:

    so, let’s see. we lose intimidation in pvp, binding shot in pve, and our pet related stuns and other ccs have their cooldowns increased.

    that leaves us worse than the cata state.

    i’m pretty upset about the binding shot change in particular. honestly this is going to put hunters to the very bottom utility-wise, and our dps isn’t exactly fantastic at the moment (we’re lacking now, the buff will bump us back to the middle of the pack with luck).

  9. Dethstalker says:

    Exotic Beasts now reduces the cooldown of your Pet Special Abilities by 1%, down from 30%.

    I seriously hope this is a typo in the patch notes otherwise this is a serious nerf to PvE beastmasters.

  10. Kaneli says:

    If you feel the changes are unjustified you should bring up your concerns on their own sites NOW before they go live (and make sure to elaborate why). At least add your voice with the others who might already have done this. There seemed to be quite a backlash about the DR change from hunters – it got cancelled – but not so much about the rest. More reasonable opposition, the better the chance that things won’t go live or will be changed. Sure it won’t always work, but sometimes it does, however it most definitely won’t work if people don’t communicate their views to the devs and only complain elsewhere.

    If you already did, then great!

  11. Vraestin says:

    Oh but fuck you and your PvE nerfs, Wow is loosing tons of people cuz of pvp sucks!

  12. bahzob says:

    The game would be way better and much easier for Blizzard to tune if they just applied the same concept that already exists for CC to all abilities.

    That is have a coefficient for every ability not just CC ones that is different in PVP and PVE zones.

    That way if anything is imbalanced in raids, correcting it will not screw up PVP. And vice versa.

    In coding terms this would be straightforward, especially since its already been implemented in part for CC.

  13. Dorianchika says:

    5.3 drops May 21st. Blizz just announced it Saturday May 17.

  14. Noxxana says:

    “Holinka then made a fascinating clarification: responding to another person who complained this was a PvE nerf, he then said that pet abilities used in PvE would have their base cooldowns reduced — he didn’t explicitly say by how much, but in theory we’d hope to see the full 30%.”

    Guess what. He lied. Look at Last Stand or Spirit Mend. I respect you and your contribution to the hunter community way to much to critize you with levity. But in my opinion you get excited a little bit too easy. Zeherah and Frostheim, you are THE faces of the hunter community. You probably get heard if you have to say something, even over at Blizzard.

    I’d like to know what has to happen to make you speak up?