At Blizzcon this year my Track Ghostcrawler ability was working again. Though I stayed at the same hotel, I never saw the big GC in the hotel halls, but I did see him in one of the convention center halls on his way to lunch after a panel and I got to ask him a handful of hunter questions, which he graciously answered even though I think I delayed his lunch.

Of course I did not get to ask him everything I wanted to — these were just the first things to come to my mind when I saw him and influenced by the direction the conversation went, and I didn’t have a lot of time.

I think my favorite quote was when we were talking about fans and I said something to the effect of, “Yeah, but I also have a small but rabid group of anti-fans.”

Ghostcrawler laughed and said, “Yeah, so do I.”

So here is the stuff we talked about, as I remember it through the haze of Blizzcon:

Raid DPS Data

I asked Ghostcrawler if they had some kind of awesome data about raid dps that was like our World of Logs parses, but including everything. He said that yes, they did have that kind of data but that they also paid attention to the World of Logs. He said that they watch WoL stuff a lot so that they know what the players are seeing, as well as all the info they’re seeing. He gave an example from back in Wrath when they felt like players didn’t appreciate how tough bubbles were and couldn’t figure it out until they looked at WoL and realized that it didn’t credit absorbs as heals, because of the way the combat log reported things (this has long since been fixed, of course).

He also said that they had some really cool tools for testing dps. He said that unlike players, they can make actual bots and they can program in an exact rotation and run long in-game tests on various targets and see exactly what the potential of each spec is in various situations (which makes you think about how they feel BM is not as far behind as representation suggests). He noted that sometimes players come up with clever ways of improving rotations that they didn’t think of and they have to reprogram the bots — but he also said that they’ve occasionally found rotations that the players haven’t found that are higher dps than what the players are using. Not for hunters, but for at least one other dps class out there they have a better rotation than what is being used.

Hunter PvP

I asked him a very carefully phrased question to the effect of, “So do you guys think hunter PvP is a problem?” Ghostcrawler was pretty adamant: he said hunter PvP was bad, that it was a problem. Of course this was before a hunter team took first place in the arena championship, but I think it’s still true. He said the problems were mostly based around focus regen and LoS focus regen — though removing minimum range should help. He also talked about the challenges of improving hunter PvP without making things overpowered, and how the smallest changes to something like a defensive cooldown can quickly become imbalancing.

So we know that hunter PvP is on their radar. He also noted that there was some talk that removing minimum range would make hunters want to stay in melee with other ranged classes and they were considering some kind of mechanic to discourage that (this was very speculative). I suggested that we aren’t generally going to want to sit in minimum range with anyone most of the time.

Minimum Range

I had to know whether removing minimum range was a purely design decision, or whether it was based on the overwhelming player feedback, so I asked! Ghostcrawler said that it was a 50/50 thing. He said they knew there was nothing else they could do that would make hunters as happy as removing minimum range. But then he also talked about how difficult it was designing with minimum range in the game (something I’ve talked about often) including talking about flagging bosses for no min range in Cataclysm fights.

Hunter Pets

I asked about whether hunter pets would keep their talent trees like they have no, or if they’d change to something more like the new player talents, or go away entirely (note that in MoP you’ll be able to take any pet and just choose whether it will be tenacity, ferocity, or cunning).

Ghostcrawler said that this wasn’t something they had decided on yet, but they were considering just removing pet talents entirely. He said they don’t feel like there are really meaningful choices in the pet talent trees as they are now, but that they could possibly move to a talent system for pets similar to that for players if they could come up with meaningful choices to make.

So it sounds like pet talents as they exist now are going away. We’ll either have no talents and pets will just innately have what they need based on their spec, or it’ll be a minor version of what players will have in the expansion. I got the impression that they were leaning toward just doing away with pet talents, so that’s something we’ll have to lean on them about!

Dual-Wielding Ranged Weapons

Dual-wielding ranged weapons is a possibility. It sounds like the main thing preventing it from being really strongly on the table is the difficulty in adding all those new animations (which have to work with all the races, genders, and armor sets).


The idea of a stampede ability for hunters or BM hunters — something where you’re whole stable of active pets rushes the enemy at once for a few seconds — is something that has been talked about a lot by the design team. It’s a definite possibility that hunters will see something like that, though not something that is currently in the works or definitely planned.  Ghostcrawler pointed out that if they did it it would not be “actual” pets that you control, but instead just a bunch of pets (possibly random, possibly your active stable of 5) that charged whatever there was to attack and munched away for a while, possibly applying random pet abilities at the same time.

I seriously hope they do this. It would be so awesome and I’m thrilled that it’s something that’s at least being talked about!

Armor Sets on the Blizzard Store

I asked whether there were any plans to make armor sets with no stats for sale on the Blizzard store as a vanity item that you can transmogrify your gear into. He said that a couple people have brought the idea up at Blizzard, but then he said that making armor is very expensive (meaning a lot of man hours, I assume) and there are no plans for that right now. He said that things like mounts and vanity pets are actually really easy for them to make, comparatively.

On one hand you could easily argue that they’d make a heck of a lot of money off of it and more than pay for those man hours, but on the other hand you’re essentially pulling those people off of making actual content for the game. And you can’t always just add more designers — at some point it makes things happen slower than faster.


Ghostcrawler had added to his Developer Watercooler signature the line that “he probably listens to your podcast.” I asked him how many he did listen to and he said he listens to a lot of podcasts, but not every week. Each week he listens to various different ones.

He noted that he found that podcasts were a good source of information and player feedback, since the effort to make a podcast is high enough that you can generally expect well thought-out arguments on them. I imagine they’re also good in the sense that the collect and curate a lot of the general feedback of the playerbase at large.

And yes, it turns out he does listen to the Hunting Party Podcast from time to time. Yipes!

Um… That Could Be a Problem

I asked about the new Transmorph Trap and whether you could use both that and a Freezing Trap to CC two targets at once (or if you could only have one active at a time). He said that yes, you could. I then asked if I could Transmorph Trap a target, then Freezing Trap another target, then Wyvern Sting yet another, Scatter Shot a fourth, then use Readiness and do it all again.

He paused a moment and said… yeah, that could be a problem.

So that’s what I got — and writing it up now that’s an impressive amount of information for how short the conversation was. I was kinda rapid firing as many questions as I could in there. The only other thing he mentioned (that I can recall) was that they did indeed name an item after Zeherah in 4.3 (he asked me if I had seen it yet — I hadn’t, and still haven’t). He said it was one of the valor purchases, so hopefully we’ll find out exactly what soon!


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  1. Tibbelkrunk says:

    “They did indeed name an item after Zeherah in 4.3 (he asked me if I had seen it yet — I hadn’t, and still haven’t)”

    Here it is!

  2. Dianth says:

    Awesome article Frost! I enjoyed it immensely. Too funny about the mutual rabid fan bases :) Thanks so much for stepping up for the hunters.

  3. Thornagol says:

    lol, come on GC…it’s got mastery. You know Zeherah is honored (and a little amused) by that one.

    Grats Zeherah!

    (I’m still waiting for Thornagol’s Horrific BB Gun.)

  4. schwebels says:

    if only the bloody helm didn’t have mastery :(, but anyways, congrats zeherah!!!!

  5. Ozolin of Moon Guard says:

    Congrats Zeherah!

    So, Frost, when they nerf our CC abilities all to hell do we get to blame you for bringing it to your attention? ;)

    It was so awesome to be able to freeze multiple targets before they changed that, and when I read “could Transmorph Trap a target, then Freezing Trap another target, then Wyvern Sting yet another, Scatter Shot a fourth, then use Readiness and do it all again” I literally started drooling, LOL.

    • Hrist says:

      Not only can you blame him, you can misconstrue it as a call for nerfing his own class and join the rabid legion of anti-fans who can’t understand the difference between pointing out imbalance and preparing people for the inevitable versus ACTUALLY ASKING TO BE NERFED.

    • 7seti says:

      I think it’s better to fix the problem now than let it go live and be nerfed later. Remember what happened in patch 3.08 when they nerfed BM/Readiness? They didn’t just fix the talent that was the problem, they nerfed the whole tree into oblivion.

      If something overpowered makes it onto live servers, they tend to over-react and use a slegehammer when a chisel would do.

  6. Kylaella says:

    I was hoping for the stampede way back when we were putting together a wishlist when cata was announced, and I am really glad to see that they are seriously considering it! Instead of stable pets, I like the idea of making the graphic like Snow White in Shrek 3. Sing some sweet song that turns into Zep and all the cute forest animals go nutso. Cone AoE CC from swatting?

    Also, Frost, we love you man, but giving him the uber CC scenario with the traps is like the smart kid in class reminding the teacher she forgot to assign a book report before Christmas break, lol. They would have figured it out anyway, but it would have been fun ticking off everyone in PvP for a month.

  7. Tsunai says:

    Definatly a big grats to Zeherah, being new to both the site and only having been playing since Wrath I didn’t even know players got that kind of thing. Utterly awesome!

    As for the pet thing… I really REALLY hope they don’t lose them completely and they at least give us a set of them for each spec, they talents and buffs may not have been what you may call “Glorious”, but our pets are a good chunk of our dps so everything they get is more gravy for us. Though I do see a terrifying aspect for the Silithid here for BM… stam buff, ranged minor CC on a pet with full speed/charge buffs, pins em, hits em and has the most HP out of any pet spec without a priest.

    Stampede would be a total dream ability though… but it would be a trick to make sure it doesn’t get too OP, also I hope they don’t destroy our trapapalooza! Four ways to mess up the opponent on the short term? I mean they could just reduce the time that the Transmog trap would keep them down for so that it wouldn’t be too broken since Wyvern and Scatter are short peroids.

    If they do nerf that though don’t worry, I won’t blame you Frost! Also.. absolutely great info.

  8. Littlegunlongun says:

    “He also noted that there was some talk that removing minimum range would make hunters want to stay in melee with other ranged classes and they were considering some kind of mechanic to discourage that (this was very speculative). I suggested that we aren’t generally going to want to sit in minimum range with anyone most of the time.”

    I don’t see how they can implement a discouraging mechanic that doesn’t screw over PvE. I wouldn’t mind some sort of equalizer in PvP if it was truly needed (I don’t think it is) but these things always spill over into PvE. Besides, we’ll want to be out of melee range whenever possible, that isn’t going to change. Seriously, let it go Greg, let it go.

  9. BigSal says:

    I have one question about the new talent system. Once the new ones are implemented, what happens to talents like Careful Aim, Hunter vs Wild, Survival Tactics, or the other talents not covered in the new talent tree? Do they go away or do they become passive? I’m a little confused. Please help :-)

    • Littlegunlongun says:

      Good question. The short answer is we don’t know. Presumably straight dps talents like piercing shots, lock and load, and Killing Streak will have one rank and you will auto-learn them at certain levels. My guess is talents like Hunter vs. Wild, and Survival Tactics will either be made baseline, combined with the new talents, or removed completely.

      • BigSal says:

        Well, I hope they become baseling because the Hunter vs Wild talent is extremely useful in PVP and so is Survival Tactics. Oh well, I’ll hope for the best! Thanks for the reply :-)

  10. Thornagol says:

    I would assume that the passive skills will remain passive for the spec, but without having to spend points to get it. Like Sniper Training would be a passive skill for SV, Piercing Shots for MM, automatic respec’ing to MM for BM (I KID, I KID).

    I’m actually more interested to see if the the pets will keep their unique buffs in the end since they will have the ability to choose spec.

  11. Zotha says:

    Thought he’d be taller :)

  12. Arthemystia says:

    Shoulda asked him what they’re doing about pet stances. That’s honestly a bigger gripe for me in this expansion than no minimum range was.

    Good stuff though, this was cool to read.

  13. sheppo says:

    the fact the ranged weapon now sits in a 2h slot should make it easier to implement 1h (duel wielding) range weapons, at least from a UI point of view.

  14. Daemar says:

    Hehe.. as always, good article (and I forgive you for making Ghostcrawler think about nerfing multi-trapping and CC before it’s even possible!)

    I wonder how much WHU are responsible for the consideration of dual-wielding?

    Keep asking the questions!

  15. Lygion says:

    First let me preference this by saying I’m a handicapped player so I don’t play my toon exactly the way a majority of you do..I am physically unable to in fact.

    I like the idea on min-range going the way of the Dodo. Not sure I’m as crazy about the loss of my melee weapons though, I’ve gotten too used to having to melee my way out of rogue encounters way too much…yes I’m a hunter that melees…! Now with the prospect of no min-range it would be like a mugger jumping a granny with a 410 pump action..not the best idea in the world.

    I do like the one comment about the stampede and the Shreck/Snow White concept If they could just make it “all beasts and critters in a 20yd range” that would be cool, include the cute little bunnies and squirrels. Sound like the kind of movie Easter egg Blizzard likes to do, Oh the visuals..Hunter gets sapped,Hunter comes out of sap,Hunter Yells like Tarzan on acid and the rogue gets to feel the pain. I like it.

  16. Lygion says:

    I’ve always wanted a couple of bad-ass Pistols to fire, come on Dual-wield ranged!

  17. hillbillyhatfield says:

    I also though of Transmorph Trap a target, Freezing Trap another target, Wyvern Sting yet another. And I guarantee it will not happen. PVP alone will stop that. There is no way they will allow us to immobalize 3 (or 4)opponents at once. You can hear the QQ now from every class.

    I figure if they stampede does go through it will be a generic group. I dont know how much programming would go into making our top 5 pets attack. But it seems easier for a generic, wolf, cat, bear, boar, ect. But I’m not a programmer so who knows. However I can dream of Gondria, peanut the Devilsaurs, papa bear, Sambas, and pooslinger the gorilla charging in to lay some heavy damage on someone. I wonder if you can go red while this is going on. WOW talk about damage.

  18. JesFine says:

    “[F]or at least one other dps class out there they have a better rotation than what is being used.”

    This is fascinating to me. Any speculation as to which one(s)?

  19. Thanks for this, really interesting conversation you had XD

    – Jamin