With great power comes lots and lots of dps. But there’s also a responsibility we have as hunters. And it’s to our class, specifically those who don’t bring the awesomesauce like we do and maybe don’t know how.
If you’re reading the WHU, you have an interest in hunter-dom. It may be casual, it may be hardcore. You may be here to troll Frostheim with evil comments, or to stare longingly at his manly wrists (I’m mostly here for the latter, btw). But you’re here, which means you have a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips about how to play every aspect of the hunter class: dps, soloing, PvP, tanking, leveling, etc.
Then there’s the huntard. It’s the stigma we must overcome, but there’s a reason that stigma exists. Huntards are usually unwittingly contributing to the ridicule they receive. They don’t have the tools or knowledge. That’s where we come in, and it requires more than a link to Elitist Jerks or the WHU.
Maybe you don’t have the time to train a PUG hunter whose top dps shot is Arcane Shot. But new players still exist on your server or possibly in your guild, and guildies in nearly every guild will constantly be rolling alts. I’ve “trained” probably about a dozen hunters (mostly alts) in some capacity, and some common errors and things to think about are below. Use them as necessary, as some will be more applicable than others in each situation.
Leveling Spec
Besides having a great guide to that here on the WHU for reference, it’s easy to point them to either BM or MM. Despite MM’s self-heal utility once you get Chimera Shot, BM does give a very real sense of “the pet is your personal tank” that isn’t ingrained in many non-pet classes, so that can be an important tool to acclimate someone to the class. Otherwise, use the WHU as your own resource to recommend things, even if the hunter you’re mentoring isn’t ready for such an investment.
Information Overload
A new hunter, or a newly-85 hunter, doesn’t want every detail. They want to know how to start playing well. Maybe not “best” but better than they would have otherwise. A few big, important points are good, not trying to get them to digest, say, haste plateaus and why they’re relevant.
Information overload can also lead to becoming intimidated with a new class, and subsequently dropping it entirely. So long as new hunters understand that all hunter gear is ours first, we want other hunters to tag along. A common example follows.
What To Avoid:
Guildie: Hey Arth, just dinged 85!
Arth: Grats!
Guildie: How should I spec my hunter?
Arth: Well, if your gear ilvl is below raid-level, current dps parses suggest that SV is the way to go. Once you get into raid level gear or even all heroic-gear, you’ll want to try out MM. On average, it’s doing better than the other two at higher gear levels, and I was able to hit about 2K higher in MM on the dummies yesterday. Now if you’re only going to be questing, then I’d suggest MM for the self-heal or BM for harder tanking encounters. You don’t have any t5, do you? But for 5M’s, SV is probably best due to your AoE damage.
One Correct Way:
G: How should I spec my hunter?
A: Well, what did you level as?
G: Beastmaster.
A: Ok, probably start with that. You can do fine in all 3, but you’ll probably be better off in BM right now since you’re used to it. Do you know the rotation for it? Etc.
Another Correct Way:
G: How should I spec my hunter?
A: What do you plan on doing with him?
G: I was hoping to gear him up for raids eventually.
A: In that case, you may want to take a look at MM. Right now it appears to be doing the best raid dps once you’re geared, and it’s also what I seem to get the best results with. Do you know the rotation? Etc.
Levels of Mastery
By this I mean, is it basic knowledge, mid-level, or an advanced hunter skill?
A basic piece of information would be rotation. An advanced skill would be, say, jump-disengage-shotting. Obviously one should be prioritized over another when teaching a new hunter. But it’s not always as clear as that. The SV rotation is a necessary “basic” tool. In contrast, the idea that Kill Commands should occasionally be woven in between Explosive Shots instead of Cobra Shots when L&L procs and you’re topped out on focus…THAT’S a mid-to-advanced idea. Some rough ideas of how to proceed through the “tiers” is below. It’s important to tell newer hunter the best 1-2 ways to improve their play, not every single thing they could learn or do differently.
Basic
Standard Rotation, Cookie-cutter Spec, Glyphs, Rough Stat Priority, Hit Cap, Meta Gem, The Stats We Don’t Want (Strength, Expertise, etc.)
Mid-Level
Use of “utility” shots like Silencing Shot and Tranq Shot, reforging advice, Aimed Shot hardcasting, Kill Commands in SV, the range of pet buffs and which to bring to groups/raids, advanced control of pets
Advanced
Jump-shotting, kiting, tanking or kite-tanking, haste plateaus, aspect dancing, use of numerous hunter tools in quick succession in boss fights
Which Pet?
Ok, so you’ve told them to get a Sporebat, but they ACTUALLY want to know what pet to use and when. Frostheim has gotten so tired of the question that there may be a lot of us who have never heard him legitimately answer it. And while the recommendations below could go into further detail, we’re looking for the bare minimum to tell someone so that they are playing acceptably without being overwhelmed.
- For leveling, questing, and soloing: Turtle/Beetle or Cat. Turtle/Beetle for survivability, a cat because a cat’s buff is the most useful to us personally. Things will die faster that way.
- 5M’s: Varies, but a cat is the safest way to have a hunter’s best buff. Have a cat, then some others that bring a group buff.
- Raids: Varies based on raid composition. There’s unfortunately no quick answer here. If they’re ready to raid, though, they’re ready for the long answer.
- PvP: Spider, or something with a stun or disarm. Or a Sporebat. They make rogues bleed from their anus, after all.
Why Is My DPS Still Low?
First, there’s this wonderful writeup from Frostheim dealing with this exact issue. But if you have the time, the best way to help someone is to sit in-group with someone at a training dummy or in a setting easy enough that it doesn’t require complete attention (5M’s usually). If you don’t have that time, and they already know the “basics,” there’s two things I’ve learned to tell new hunters that never fail to produce results:
- Don’t delay your signature shot. A LOT of dps is lost for newer players who aren’t comfortable enough with the rotation to be hitting their signature shot right away every time. Tell them to focus on this, they will see a change.
- Always be casting. In reality, this isn’t always true, but it’s good advice. One of the biggest things I notice on Recount parses between experienced hunters and novice hunters is the number of Steady/Cobra Shots cast. Haste can affect this, but mostly it’s the hunter’s ability to be casting while moving and accounting for latency with preemptive keystrokes. Downtime equals lost dps, it’s less focus and thus less signature shots, etc. etc. It’s usually around this time that they’ll realize the importance of AotFox, so Aspect Dancing isn’t a bad skill to introduce at that time as well.
If you’re a skilled hunter, it’s because you’ve invested time and effort into it. Same with any class. But it’s also because you’ve been able to track down useful resources and have had the help of other dedicated hunters. I wouldn’t be the hunter I am without Frostheim, or various others in the hunter community. So if and when you get the chance, pay it forward and help a new hunter. It will make you feel good inside, and chances are you’ll prevent the creation of a rogue at some point, which is always a good thing.
Actually, one of the first things I’d do (and have done with new 85 hunters) is to send them here, specifically to the guides section. Yeah, I’ll give them the basic ‘stack agi, avoid things like str’ plus rotation advice talk, but really the guides section here has great advice on gear, rotations and specs and it’s something they can refer to. It’s also my way of weeding out the people who really want to learn from the people who want to be spoonfed. The former will eat this place up (metaphorically!), the latter won’t come here and will whine about their DPS.
Not everyone has the mindset that they should get everything from a website. Correct information is correct information, regardless of the source.
Yes, linking to the WHU is fine and works for some. But it might also be an example of information overload. I send players here when they’re ready to master their hunter, not when they’re just learning the basics.
A personal observation concerning 5 man pet choices. I know this is completely dependent on the comp you get in LFG, but we only have 5 slots to have on us at a time. All the 5mans I have done, I have found the most common buffs that are missing are: 4% physical damage, 30% increased bleed damage, 5% crit (I dont see many bears in LFG), and 12% armor reduction. I also carry a cat or sometimes windserpent, but I usually prioritize 5% crit since everyone in the 5 man (caster, physical dmg, healer and tank) can benefit from that. It is just a trend i noticed with one of those 4 buffs missing over and over.
fury warriors bring the 5% crit too, and there a lot of them in my realm pool ;)
i normally roll with a cat, wolf, raptor, and hyena.. seems to have most bases covered. Last slot reserved for solo/pvp pet.
“Always be casting.”
I agree – That is the most common cause I have seen for people to have low DPS.
To the inquiring hunter: I didn’t do any magical DPS tricks; I just did twice as many Steady Shots as you did. :|
Spot on. When alt or new hunters ask me whats the best thing they can do to improve their DPS and I say “mash your buttons faster” they think I’m joking.
No, seriously, mash your keys faster!
When they’re starting out – it’s
1. The joy of agility and why it’s good to load.
2. How to use a pet (aggr/def/passive) Why your pet is more than just something that follows you around.
3. Casting.. If you’re in Australia or somewhere far from the US server – then teaching them how to cast with lag is a big dps gain.
Personally – for soloing and 1-60lvls I suggest a tenacity pet (bear) or something else with an aoe threat/aggro. Because the other thing it does for newbies is encourage them to be a ranged hunter and not a huntard. And how to deal with tanks. “Oh look – Tanks are just uncontrolled tenacity pets on aggressive”.
“…uncontrolled tenacity pets on aggressive.” lmao, awesome!
Great info here thanks!
on a off topic note.. Looks like MMO champ has the crossbow back to a gun even though its still named a crossbow. I hate to get my hopes up but who knows
too many people complain about the loudness of guns for them to ever put one in the game at a competitive ilvl again. dont get too hopeful
tell ppl do get addon gunsilencer
I just started running heroic 5-mans on my alt tank, and my biggest piece of advice for a new hunter running 5-mans would be “use misdirect on the tank!”
Ran Grim Batol with a hunter who would start firing at a mob before it got to me, never used misdirect, and then asked me why I couldn’t hold aggro.
if someone is serious about playing a hunter, i direct them right here (“you’ll find answers to all questions and more”), and tell them to download the raidchecklist addon for the “what is the best pet” question.
if they play hunters just for the lulz, i’ll give them basic advice (yes, agi is good, no str is not, yes you need the pet, yes bm is a good lvling and raiding choice), but i won’t “waste” time on them, as they probably will have forgotten most of what i said after two days.
“Sporebat. They make rogues bleed from their anus, after all.” ROFL!!!!!! :D
This please. Super-this on the PVP… I’m a battleground bunny with five bits of PVP gear and a crocolisk called Steve to totally chew on folks.
I can has something not built of Information Overload, pls?
On my realm for 5mans I find a cat and wolf get the most use. Those are probably the best general use pets when going into a dungeon composition where you are unaware of what you will have. Other then that I bring a core hound, a fox and a ravager.
MD on the tank seems like an obvious thing to do but I know a lot of hunters who don’t. When I’m tanking on my DK I assume hunters do this (maybe a bad habit on my part) so when it fails to happen and we wipe (because I’m not interested in a hunters survival… we don’t need the tank to babysit us) I start to make more specific requests. MD all the time, trap blue, do you have another pet as an option?
Raid checklist is really the best answer to which pet is the best but only for those who are serious. Getting an add-on is a big step for some people and only serious hunters or those who lead raids will be terribly interested in it. I do both (when the guild is alive anyways) so I use it on my DK as well.
The biggest problem I have faced with “new” hunters is lack of interest to learn. “Yeah I know I can do better but whatever this is just an alt.” The sad thing is this comes from my own guild members sometimes. They just have a it’s good enough attitude and move on. Others think I’m just babbling and don’t know what I’m talking about, despite sound reason and results.
I only point serious hunters to WHU, otherwise it’s just a waste of Frost’s bandwidth.
The fox debuff is available to all tanking specs/classes, so unless your tank is doing something wrong you should never need it in a 5-man.
For random groups, I use a wolf, corehound, silithid, spirit beast and shale spider. The wolf seems to be the one I use most. Guild groups tend to have at least one priest and pally, so I swap out the shale spider and silithid for a raptor and moth.
For non-BM hunters, I’d suggest wolf, cat, raptor, windserpent/dhawk and ravager (or nether ray if you want an interrupt).
As a DK tank my fox-like debuff comes from my frost fever. This is not always up but that does not mean I’m doing something wrong either. I guess the bottom line here is that some combat mechanics preclude the use of this debuff. Though if it’s ever really important to have this up it wouldn’t ever take long to deploy.
That said, I think I will remove the fox from my active stable anyways as it’s never used.
My mistakes sorry, I use a carrion bird not a fox.
I find the top 5 pets to bring to 5mans and raids is cat/devilsaur, hyena, wolf, ravager, wind serpent/dragonhawk,
I’ve sent dozens of newbie and experienced hunters here, the only downside is the people that nerd rage me for “telling them how to play their class” I wouldn’t have to tell you how to play your class if you knew.
leveling a new hunter via battlegrounds, scatter shot + aimed shot = domination.
I’ve learned to embrace the “huntard” stereo-type, and over time, have found it to provide a good educational opportunity to help improve class-relations.
I’ve found that many WoW players just instinctively blame Hunters, even when the Hunter is not at fault. The blame just seems to stick very conveniently, I guess due to that “huntard” stigma. And let’s face it, calling a Hunter a “huntard” isn’t a very polite thing to say.
So, when I’m confronted with the Huntard attitude, I not so politely demonstrate some real huntard skills; like how to wipe the PUG by killing the healer with misdirection and feign death. Preferably right after the obnoxious Tank-Healer group has already kicked one of the weaker DPSers. I find their disgusting remarks of frustration quite entertaining. =) Usually, they stop with the “huntard” comments.
No doubt, some will strongly disapprove of this type response. But it’s my conclusion that people who are quick to cast insults to the “huntard” need to better understand Hunters’ true capabilities.
I do strongly disapprove of responding to “huntard’ as a huntard. You’re giving them the power.
That said, I’ll relate the two times I ever MD’ed a healer.
First time, the Priest healer and I were the only two original members of a Stonecore Random that had cycled at least 10 other players through without downing Corberus. The Priest got angry that I would FD out of every wipe after the tank died, saying I should die like everyone else. After at least 45 minutes of this, the Priest life gripped me into the boss while we were waiting for a new tank. As you might imagine, I popped deterrence, dismissed pet, disengaged and feigned death. The Priest died. After the Priest ran back in, I MD’ed the boss to him and feigned death. The Priest died. Well, the story ends well, as after the Priest quit (finally), we got a tank/healer combo and one-shotted everything.
The second time was a Shammy healer in GB who harped on us all about our spec/ glyph choices, never healed the DPS and downright abused the tank. We couldn’t kick for some reason, so we had to suffer or leave. Some left, but this gloriously masochistic tank (Warrior, I think) expertly used his c/d’s to scrape by between the Shammy’s tirades. I was multi-trapping and using Wyvrn despite the Shammy’s insistence to pull big (tank and I use /w the whole run). After wiping to Valonia once, all three DPS vote to skip, but the healer and tank wanted to stay, so we wiped some more. The other two DPS slots cycled once each, all still wanting to skip, but then the Shammy blamed it all on the “huntard” and got the other two DPS railing on me to quit. I then MD’ed the trash pulls (plural) around the corner to him, found a corner and feigned death. The Shammy died. I popped back up. The Shammy popped back up! (silly me, forgetting self-rez) “So that’s how it is” he typed. He left, and we got a new healer who later commented on how quiet we all were, even for a random.
Both times are funny to me. Not as funny as the time I MD’ed a Warlock, but still funny. Still wrong, though.
I disagree. Have to go with a bear and cat for leveling. I’ve had papa bear for 5 1/2 years. Best pet period. I tamed him when I could tame and never looked back. I don’t use the ultra tank pets unless I do extremesoloing. If you need a turtle/beetle leveling. You are pulling waaaay too many, and should die.
Just my rant. Personal preference. Honestly any of the tank branch will do, but turtle and beetle are a safe bet. Can not go wrong with a cat for raids. I like the dogs too. But that is mroe of a PVP thing.
One of my buddy hunters(we started out in the same guild) has had a gorilla for 5 years. He tamed Pooslinger as soon as he leveled high enough outside booty. And uses it as much as I use papa. We breezed through icecrown with a bear/gorilla combo. It was too easy.
LONG LIVE THE BEAR.
I agree, bear/cat is classic in every sense. When we could only have two pets, that’s what they were.
in ICC, your pets didn’t bring a raid buff, so it didn’t really matter, and if your raid has every buff/debuff then it still doesn’t really matter.
but if your missing a raid buff, It is your role to provide it. there is no reason not to, I’m kinda tired of seeing every other hunter bringing vanity pets or a bunch of cats. why have 5 agi/str buffs that don’t stack?
Also, I of course agreed with nativetrash. The article doesn’t really deal with raiding though. Once a fresh hunter is ready to raid, then they’re ready for the full pet explanation that includes bringing the optimum buff. In the meantime, while they quest and run the occasional 5M, a cat will help them bring the most dps.
Well yes, no pet is a bad pet technically. Most are personal preference anyway when we’re leveling. However, the article is just dealing with objective realities: namely, that turtles and beetles stay alive the best. And if a hunter is looking for a short list to stable up, one of those should be on it.
I agree here with nativetrash, bring the pet that helps everyone the most. If you must have a vanity pet at all times then go tame ALL rare pets… I did. It took a long time but every single pet I own is rare and came with their own name, which I keep. Only exception to this are two pets, both beetles, one is a rare whose original name was not really a name and too many characters for our pet names anyways and the other is the color changing beetle which is a random spawn in the circle of law event I think.
Its worth having a tanking pet when running 5 mans, especially if your pugging. My turtle has saved the day numerous times when the tank has died.
If the boss doesnt do too much single target damage, or if the healer is on the ball enough to start healing the pet instead, its worth dismissing the dps pet for the tanking pet.
This thread has very quickly devolved into missing the forest for the trees.
Heh.
It’s still constructive though, it more thoroughly answers the question, which is the best pet, I hate spore bats! They are one of the few pet families without a rare representation.
Frost must be on vacation.. no new post today :(
When it comes to raid parses I think people need to understand they can’t just look at the guy with the #1 parse on a fight and copy him exactly. I’m a top 20 – 40 parsing hunter in 10H and my hunter buddy Zane in our other raid is generally in the top 5. We discuss hunter theory and strategy all the time which is actually a big help. When your looking at parses at the very extreme end top 10 there’s usually a lot of factors at play. So don’t just look at the top 1 parse and say Man I could never be that good or I’m going to copy this guy exactly.
1. Length of fight, you’ll notice most extreme parses for SV are just over the 5:30 length meaning 2 rapid fires, and for MM they’re just over 6:30 mins (3 cooldown resets). The length of fight is also important as on most fights our DPS starts high because of CA and then decreases, having a raid with a lot of top 20 DPS helps you parse better as well.
2. Look for AoE stacking, this is one of the things you’ll see on fights with adds. In no way does this help get the boss down usually but once content is on farm some people like to push for a parse.
3. Some of the really top parses are using custom built glyphs and specs for that fight.
Personally I think the big things to look at when bringing your dps up is positioning and time spent moving. For alot of fights you can really minimize the time you spend moving if you find a good position and can remain there. When you have to move remember that you can disengage and that will save time getting to a new position.
Bringing up your Personal Raid DPS
Rotation > Reforges > Positioning > Pre Potting > 5m Cooldown Timing > Managing Focus > Macros
Last but really important never sacrifice a kill for a parse. Tunnel DPS = Dead DPS = Dead Raid = Disappointed Fellow Raiders
Top parses aren’t our concern, you’re right that it’s often tailored to a particular fight, and often time will even have guildies helping the hunter improve their dps (not always, mind you, but such things aren’t our concern anyway).
Your hierarchy there looks ok, except for Focus Management. Topping out on focus a lot or not having enough for signature shots can be massively harmful to boss fight dps. Definitely a “mid-level” skill, but something that would be higher in my own personal > > chain.
Not sure if anyone else agrees, but I usually use the add-on RaidChecklist and it’s helped me decide quickly which pet to use during different situations by showing me what buffs the party currently has and which ones I can provide.
Those who are not familiar with other class buffs should grab the add-on. It’s really made choosing which pet to best suit the raid/dungeon much more convenient.
I’ve found it to be a bit cpu intensive, so I prep with it at the raid entrance, then turn it off.
Given a bit of knowledge about the other classes makes this tool a great framework for choosing a pet. There are many subtleties to raid buffs/debuffs, so I think choosing just the right pet becomes and advanced skill after the big ones are covered.
Raid Checklist is good, I like it and use it a lot.