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This guide will cover the optimal raid dps Survival hunter shot rotation for level 85 in Cataclysm.
Cataclysm brought with it big changes to the shot rotation of every hunter spec, including SV. We no longer have any kind of fixed SV rotation, instead we want to fire our shots in a priority system and make decisions as we play about whether to save up focus for the SV signature shot, or to burn focus before it caps out.
Cataclysm Survival SV Hunter Shot Rotation at Level 85
You will want to be in Aspect of the Hawk and start the fight by putting up Hunter’s Mark and applying Serpent Sting. Your shot priority then becomes:
- Explosive Shot
- Kill Shot (if available)
- Black Arrow
- Arcane Shot
- Cobra Shot
Explosive shot is the SV hunter signature shot and most damaging basic ability. If you’re a SV hunter, then Explosive Shot rocks your world and you absolutely want to be able to hit this every cooldown — be sure you always have enough focus to do so. You never want to push your Explosive Shot back by a full Cobra Shot cast, but pushing it back by a partial cast — the last half second of a cobra for example — is just fine.
Black Arrow is used on cooldown partially for the nice damage of the DoT, but also to get Lock & Load procs via the T.N.T. talent. With changes to T.N.T. Black Arrow in patch 4.3.2, you definitely want to use Black Arrow on all single-target fights, and not a Trap. If you have multiple targets that are going to live a while, use an Explosive Trap instead of Black Arrow.
Finally Arcane Shot is the SV focus dump shot — and you’ll be using it much more often since 4.3!
Note that this is a priority rotation, and the actual number of shots that you can fit in between each Explosive Shot depends on your haste. For a full discussion, see SV Haste Plateaus.
SV Lock and Load Rotation
As always, the SV shot rotation changes when Lock and Load procs.
The Cataclysm system for handling DoT ticks means that if you have one tick left on the boss when you reapply the DoT, that tick gets added on to the new application. This means that we can fire two Explosive Shots almost (but not quite) back to back, then we’ll have to weave another shot in between the second and third — either Cobra Shot (if you’re low to mid-focus) or Arcane Shot (if you’re close to full on focus). However, because Lock & Load resets the Explosive Shot cooldown, this technique doesn’t really gain us extra Explosive Shots in the way that most people think it will (this is explained in detail here). Thus most hunters will be better off weaving a shot (Arcane or even Cobra Shot) in between every Explosive Shot during Lock & Load.
Here’s what the Lock & Load SV rotation looks like:
- Explosive Shot
- Arcane Shot – OR – Fraction of a second pause – .01 seconds is fine.
- Explosive Shot
- Cobra Shot / Arcane Shot
- Explosive Shot
Technically, if you fire two Explosive Shots back to back and you have any latency you will not clip your ticks — but with the shot queuing system it’s possible to fire them exactly on time with no latency, in which case you’ll clip and lose one tick. Thus a fraction of a second delay is needed. See the Lock & Load explanation for full details on how this works.
There will be times when you’re already at nearly full focus when Lock & Load first procs. In those situations you can use Arcane Shot to bleed off some focus.
See Also:

So Kill Shot will be above Explosive Shot?
hm… I also put Kill Shot above Explosive
Indeed, kill shot is pri one if and when avalable as i understand it.
in live atm, explosive shot is pri due to each tick doing roughly the same dmg as killshot. explosive shot does 3 times dmg than killshot in live.
Uhm.. maybe i’m being just too obvious, but what about refreshing serpent sting?
That’s done using Cobra Shot starting level 81
cobra shot automaticle refreshes it.
in cataclysm, cobra shot refreshes your serpent sting.
In live you’d want to miss out arcane all together and use that extra bit of focus for refreshing serpent manually when it gets to it’s last tick.
Overwriting Serpent Sting with Cobra Shot doesn’t have a downside, does it? In the case of overwriting Explosive Shot, you’re obviously missing out on extra ticks, but this isn’t the case with the damage from SrS…right?
cobra effectively adds time to the duration of the debuff, you dont lose any ticks when cobra shot extends the duration
also in the beta atm, if you already have serpent sting up on the target, you cant fire serpent sting unless the debuff has gone off the target.
Just to make an additional note. Since LnL actually only gives you 2 free Explosive Shots you could, if you are really high on focus use arcane shot before the last explosive too. This is only if you really have serious excess of focus as you still need to have 40 for the final explosive shot but something like this:
* Explosive Shot
* Cobra Shot
* Explosive Shot
* Arcane Shot
* Explosive Shot
Works just fine as well, since that arcane will not eat into your LnL procs.
what ive been doing
really only want to do it when you are almost maxed out tho
i have a question, ive heard a theory out there that surv hunters should keep up ice trap on their enemys at all times because of a talent called “point of no escape” that increase the crit chance by 6% on targets affected by your ice or frost trap, and because it triggers LnL twice: once when you aply ice trap and once when the effect fades. what do you think of this, im cirious if its a good idea?
this is my question as well. prior to patch 4, i used to proc LnL a ton because of ice trap (100% of the time with PoNE) but since patch, it rarely if ever does anything.
i don’t have the “point of no escape” talent, but i use freezing trap often even if there’s no need to cc, also on the targets that are being attacked, although there’s no chance that the freezing efect will remain
firstly because it procs LnL and secondly because it works as an extra interrupt
I’m curious about the selection of glyphs
between serpent or arcane? I currently have
serpent and rarely use arcane shot, sticking to
spaming cobra when explosive is on cd and
in-between LnL procs. Any thoughts on the difference
If any on glyphing one way or another?
I admit i havent been playing my hunter much since cataclysm, but i have worked out that if your other abilities are on CD and you have some focus to burn; dont be tempted to use arcane shot, as i find cobra shot can do alot more damage, especially if you have good haste, which is really a nessesity, and will take some reforging. Also, cobra shot should really be completely replacing steady shot as it does more damage and ofc refreshes your sting. @ Raswarwick – Serpent sting is a hunters main damager in most situationsm so definately enhanse that over arcane shot, which shouldnt be used atal now really in cata. (For Raiding atleast) Check out your recount info on the boss fights, the abilities that do the most of your damage should be priority to glyph, to push dps to the max.
Here’s a fun little macro I made up…works perfectly with Lock & Load, weaving in cobra shots between explosives and dumps excess focus into Arcane Shot every once in a while. Now this doesnt include Kill Shot, I’ve found that it’s really better to do that yourself…and as for the dps output this gets you, I get around 12k +/- 1k with my wolf out on heroics with crafted and heroic pre-raid gear(ilvl350), boss fights obviously being higher as long as not too much movement is involved. Ideally, this should work best with a Cobra Shot casttime of 1.666secs (also 1.333 and 1 for bloodlust/rapid fire time) and a good balance of crit/mastery…although my dps there isn’t exactly based on ideal stats because I’ve been trying to explore the benefits of haste recently.
/castsequence Cobra Shot
/castsequence reset=target Explosive Shot, Arcane Shot
/castsequence Cobra Shot
/castsequence Explosive Shot
/castsequence Cobra Shot
/castsequence Explosive Shot
/cast Black Arrow
/petattack
Try it out…
Thanks! I will.
Frosty, Once again, thanks for a great post.
I have to say, when the first 4. patch hit and I discovered my MM hunter(as expected) was nerfed beyond salvaging(much like a 68 beetle I once wrecked), I turned to my other two choices: Surv and BM. Having been a Surv hunter previously(and for over 2 years), I opted for BM for something new. Right away, I was impressed w/ the changes to the BM class. My pet was now responsible for almost half my DPS and it was playable. I had farmed 3 of the four northrend spirit beasts prior, went out and finally got Skoll, and thought I might be happy as a Beast Master for once…
Because, lets face it…BM hasn’t had a day in the sun for almost three years and, to me, Beast Mastery is the image of the wow hunter: Master and Pet and balanced…. Well, I guess BM hunters will have to settle for 2nd place in raid dps(which is better than their far far distant 3rd place in wotlk) as my Survival hunter(your spec, your rotation)..right out the gate…just added 2.5k dps to my overall… I’m at the Boss Dummy in IF and(no buffs) my white damage is averaging my BM damage(full buff/white damage). I’m anxious to see what this equates with some practice as our guild just started raiding BWD last night.
Thanks again for the help and for making all the number crunching bearable.
Zephrus, lv 85
BloodRoyal
Deathwing(Alliance)
Had a similar experience switching over from MM. Like you, right out of the gate, I was doing about 1k dps better than MM – even with hitting rapid fire twice (once after readiness). And I didn’t even use rapid fire. Then I realized my pet wasn’t attacking the dummy… I was able to get well over 10k without reforging and without using rapid fire, 2k better than busting my ass on MM. In heroics, my boss dps is over 11k when someone hits lust, and it’s usually over 9.5k. I was lucky if I hit 8k with MM, but usually was around 7.5k, even with the two rapid fires and someone hitting lust. SV is awesome!
Thank you so verry much I was pulling about 7k dps and this alone bosted me up to 11
I have been using this rotation, but I have been stumped what to do when focus is capped out during lock and load procs. I cant wait to get home and try throwing kill commands in there. Thank you for this guide!
thank you for your time spent and this guide it really pushed my hunter to the next level.
I’ve finally bitten the bullet and made my off-spec to SV. I was at first overwhelmed by the number of extra shots, being used to really just popping Kill Command. I was impressed without buffs how much higher my DPS was on the raiding dummy w/o raid buffs and with my poor rotation. Swapped to BM and while it wasn’t far behind, about 1-1.5k. I think that is due to my bad rotation. This page helped clarify a few things for me.
One general hunter-ing question and a SV specific:
1) Is Cobra ‘better’ than Steady in damage because it keeps Serpent Sting up? The tooltip information makes Steady look better outright.
2) would it be helpful to replace a regular Explosive Shot button with a macro that includes a reset = 2 in order to prevent clipping the two 1-second procs?
Yes cobra shot is better for survival our mastery makes it hit harder than steady shot
hi i was wondering couldn’t i activate Rapids fire after i put hunter’s mark on the target?
Can you please add the AoE shot rotation to your guides? I had to search long and hard for a SV AoE rotation. I’ve been using:
Explosive Trap > Multi Shot focus dump > Cobra Shot
If LnL procs, Explosive Shot > Multi Shot > Explosive shot > Multi Shot
Hey brother Frost, FYI, WoW gold hawkers are appearing in your advertisements. it’s a shame to see such trash on a great site as yours that’s filled with great info.
http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/faq/
When Lnl procs I sometimes accidentally do 2 explosive shots back to back. Is there some way of fixing this with a macro? Perhaps a /castsequence with a reset time?
Anybody know of a nice solution to this?
Another way of solving the problem woube to somehow lock out my explosive shot until the explosive shot buff on the target is gone entirely.
Should i dont use serpent string?
you definitely what to use serpent sting, it adds 10% dam to all your other shots if your target is affected by it! However, you only need to use serpent string at the start of the fight, once up, Cobra shot will refresh your serpent string for you. Meaning once serpent string is up, you will never have to click it again, so long as you throw at least one cobra shot on the target every 15secs.
To Eonwe…
there is a way to fix this, with a simple macro
/castsequence rest=target Explosive Shot, Cobra Shot
use this as your explosive shot button, should do the job.
Typo on my last post;
/castsequence reset=target Explosive Shot, Cobra Shot
Hello Frosthelm,
Can we use concussive shot in conjunction with other shots? It may not be any good with Boss fights but on solo or single target trash it would be a useful shot.
I have tried to macro the shot in with Scattershot like so:
/cast Concussive Shot
/cast Scatter Shot
When a target is hit with Conc shot then a Serpent Sting the damage is increased, correct?
I imagine this is covered somewhere but I still am wondering if using Snake trap has any utility in boss fights and if so how should it be weaved in.
I’d use Snake Trap (and others) before the pull maybe, if placed carefully so as not to pull before the tank is ready. That way it’ll give you a minor dps boost without slowing down the rest of your rotation.
with 4 piece and decent amount of haste, rotation ends up looking simalar to this:
HM,
ES, BA, SS, CS, CS, CS(Third only if you have enough haste, even with a good amount of haste it might be worth it to not push for the third CS and just wait the second or so for ES to come off cooldown, in the grand scheme of things, its just one opening rotation… so open how you would like)
ES, CS, CS, CS, CS
ES, CS, CS, CS, AS
ES, CS, CS, CS, AS
ES, BA, CS, CS, CS
ES, CS, CS, CS, CS
ES, CS, CS, CS, AS
ES, CS, CS, CS, AS
repeat until boss is dead..
if you become VERY focus positive, due to procs or other factors, you can always throw a
ES, CS, AS, AS
or even
ES, AS, AS, AS
(as long as you will have time to regen enough focus for your next ES, BA… rotation)
lnl complicates this slightly… but normally its simply beneficial to your rotation to just delay your BA until where it is supposed to go (or next possible ‘after ES’ spot where you won’t be screwed for focus).
Thats just what i’ve found from raiding… if anyone thinks of anything different.. please correct me
There is definitely some RNG involved with the 30% haste buffs from the 4-set being the X-factor. The Arcane Shots almost seem to pay for themselves with the extra haste. I usually open with SS-ES-BA, so my first ES will get the SS buff. From there I bounce between CS and AS depending on my focus, using ES and BA as soon as they proc. I find I get in a LOT of ASs, and get near constant LnL procs. I look at every LnL as an excuse to use more ASs, so always interspace them between ESs. Really, with a 4-set it’s like getting extra Rapid Fires so why not weave in ASs whenever they’re convenient?
Correction – it’s better than extra Rapid Fires because it is 30% haste vs. 40% ranged attack speed. Between the 30% haste procs and the double focus regen from CSs, I find I need fewer CSs and can afford more ASs… which creates a positive feedback loop that makes me giddy
on fights with two targets, are i better off using explosive trap or black arrow?
They seem to give the same amount of lock and load procs.
Yes use explosive trap if you have more then one target. But also make sure they will be in that area of your explosive trap because if they move they dont take the damage and the LnL will not proc. If it is a moving fight use the Black Arrow.
I am still struggling with my DPS. my average is 6-7,000 in dungeons. I have average heroic gear of 352, followed talent tree and glyphs to the letter. What the heck am I doing wrong? I am survival hunter. Any tips?
perhaps you’re “clipping” some of your damage by constant spamming. that is not what you want…you need to read some of the posts above and work out your shot rhythm. sometimes thoughtful shots taken slowly and calmly will wildly increase your dps. also…work out your shot priority. if you don’t want to try to memorize the damage done by each shot, there are add-ons that will advise you. pay attention to your procs….especially lock and load. and during long fights, don’t forget to re-proc your trinkets.
Go mm until u get better gear
Where do you intermix your ss?
FD is showing a significant DPS boost if I replace Kill Shot glyph with Arcane Shot glyph. I hardly use AS at all but I have a feeling I am focus capped more than I should be.
The thing is I love my double KS and not sure I want to lose it. I’m going to forge back into haste (FD again shows a major DPS boost) and incorporate AS into my regular rotation just to try.
I rank pretty much every fight and not sure I want to mess with what’s already working for me (standard SV rotation as outlined in the post) but I will try it out.
Hi Frost!
I’ve just noticed that you still recommend the “old” way of using L&L procs, using a CS between the 1st and 2nd ES. After reading EJ someone there mentioned though that due to the way how dots are now being handled differently that using 2 ES back to back won’t clip any ticks of it as ES is consindered to be a dot from the game engine perspective.
I tried it myself several times and can confirm that using:
ES ES AS ES
instead of
ES CS ES AS ES
gives all 9 ES ticks (and obviously saves approx 1.5s in our overall rotation per L&L proc).
Feel free to update your guide at your convenience.
I just re-tested this on the target dummies, and it’s still not delivering all 9 ticks. If I launch two explosive shots back to back, then an arcane, then the third explosive, I’m only getting 8 ticks, rather than the full 9.
Further testing shows that it is indeed those first two explosive shots only delivering 5 ticks, rather than 6. I noticed, however, that every now and then I get the full 6 ticks from the first two — and every now and then I only got 4 ticks. Possibly this theory works only if there’s a slight pause between the first two explosive shots, rather than firing them back to back?
Odd. I’ve tested it for about 20 minutes and always had 9 ticks during those etries, now i’ve retested it again and it seems i either get 8 or 9 ticks. Never had the case though to get only 7 overall. And it doesn’t matter if i’m hasted or how far i’m away from the dummy.
So scrap my comment and sorry for the misinformation.
I will be trying out what causes the full 9 ticks and post once i have more info.
From my own testing I’ve both had 8 and 9 ticks. I had read somewhere (I don’t actually remember, I read alot) that there needed to be time for ES to register as a dot before it could become extended.
(For me) The difference between 8 and 9 ticks was in the approach. If I spammed the ES to make sure it hit *right* when the CD popped I’d get 8 every time.
If I waited to see the GCD pop then hit ES I get 9 every time. I assume that the half second (or whatever fraction of a second) it takes for my brain to register it pop/my finger hitting the button, is enough of a delay to make sure it doesn’t clip.
The 3rd shot didn’t seem to change anything, seems the second one is the crucial one. Though to be safe I’ll treat the 3rd like i do the second and hit it as soon as the GCD pops (rather then queing it) to ensure no dots clip.
In the end, I “waste” about 1 second in all, which should still be a dps increase since ES hits CD 3 seconds or so before it does when filtering CS. I..have no math to argue this point, I just assume more ES>more CS. The half second downtime may actually be a dps loss since, even delay that’s unnoticeable to a human brain still has an effect on.
Hopefully this helps your own (or someone elses) testing. It’s by no means “proof”. Just one hunters observations.
Also you can try this:
ES CS ES ES
This rotation always gives you 9 ticks of ES
You can also change the Cobra shoot for a kill command if you have enough focus.
Thank you very much for your amazing work on this site! i have used it for several years now, and i always find a good advice and guideline to improve when i visit here! the information on the site is really IMBA, and the buildup is also really good!
Hope you will keep up the good work!
Greetings
hello i need help on my dps it way 2 low i have ok gear it 373 but i only do 15k to20k on boss my ro suck i need a new one if some one can help my pz do! can some one put up a good one 4 me
Should a survival hunter change his Careful Aim behavior like a MM hunter does?
Hi all,
what is the right rotation when using Rapid Fire?
Ty all
There is something fishy about L&L proc off off black arrow….. it’s still not as consistent as explosive trap
Stacking haste, I have no problem doing Explosive Shot/Arcane Shot/Explosive Shot/Arcane Shot/Explosive Shot, even on back to back procs of LnL. I have the 4 set bonus (mostly LFR), and each Arcane Shot also gives me a chance to proc 30% haste for 15 seconds – almost like an extra Rapid Fire – further boosting focus regen.
I mostly tank these days and am rusty on my hunter, but topped a dps meter on Ultraxion at 32k (390 item level) without much practice. I am sure I can do even better once I get back in the swing.
Hey frost,
Iv’e tried your SV shot rotation.
Il get easy over 12k dps with pvp gear (I know I’m getting
Myself a pve set now) and no bufs.
Do u guys know some good addons to suggest, to monitor my Focus? i think i’m not dumping properly my focus.
Hunt
I use DHUD4 and Serenity. Both show Focus level amongst many other good to know things.