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| Reviewed 2/2/2012 Patch 4.3.2 |
View other WHU WoW Cataclysm hunter guides or all hunter builds. Updated for patch 4.3.2.
This guide will cover the optimal raid dps SV hunter spec for level 85 in Cataclysm. Survival hunters have had the least time in the sun of all the hunter specs, but Cataclysm is promising a bright future for SV at level 85.
For a SV hunter choosing talents, you want to look almost exclusively at dps. Hunters are a dps class, and your talent spec should be designed to maximize your boss dps — because it’s bosses we care about, not trash. Any spare talent points should be focused on health and self-heals since we can’t overburden the healers as much in Cataclysm.
Cataclysm Survival SV Raid Talent Build: Level 85 Spec: 3/7/31
The Survival tree choices are pretty obvious, and pretty much what you’ll see in most SV hunter builds. With the shortened talent trees in Cataclysm, we have less choice, with the result that it’s harder to make a poor spec. Survival hunters really like the MM tree as their secondary tree, rather than putting those extra points into BM.
Point of No Escape
Our two talent points in Point of No Escape exist only to get us town to the third tier of the SV tree, and these can be put anywhere you’d like. Point of No Escape is excellent for AoE, since SV is often slowing groups of mobs that they’ll be AoEing down. Entrapment or Hunter vs Wild are equally valid choices here.
Serpent Spread
We actually only need 1 point in Serpent Spread to get all of the aoe benefit out of it. The second rank of Serpent Spread will only increase the duration of the Serpent Stings that are applied via our Multi-Shot; however, we’ll almost always be reapplying (by firing Multi-Shot again) before they run out anyway, so the added duration is not needed or used.
Careful Aim
Careful Aim was significantly nerfed in patch 4.2, dropping from affecting targets over 80% to only targets over 90%. This makes the talent far less attractive. At this point in the expansion Sic ‘Em is a better use of the talent points, though the difference is very minor.
One with Nature
One with Nature saw a massive buff in patch 4.0.6, when the Aspect of the Hawk base attack power bonus went from 637 AP all the way up to 2,000 AP. Then in 4.3.2 we saw yet another Aspect of the Hawk buff. One thing to remember in you calculations is that you do not always get the full benefit from this talent. In the vast majority of boss fights we’re swapping back and forth between AotH and Aspect of the Fox (at least, we should be) so that we never have to pause our rotation. So the actual benefit of this talent is slightly less than the theoretical spreadsheet value.
See Also:
I’d definitely put points into Survival Tactics – i mean on one side you say ‘yeah, let’s take that glyph, it’s awesome in that spot’ and on the other side you don’t put talent points into it.
Of course 7% more Stamina is great, it really is, but i guess that depends on your group. I trust my healers and they trust me to not be stupid so quite franky – as a DD i don’t need those 7%. I’d either put it into Survival tactics or Point of no Escape as this is quite great, too. Though it’s only about 20 Seconds of a fight where you got those extra 6% of crit, but well, it’s more helpful for DPS as 7% more stamina – at least to me
And personally i still haven’t decided if i gonna put that last point into Serpent Spread or BD… I mean there are some bosses where AE dmg really helps. And on those fights it really DOES impact your DPS by a huge factor. Though i guess with overall performance BD beats SSpread.
You can’t put that 1 point in BD as you need 31 points to reach BA.
So you’re stuck with that 1 point in Survival, and frankly there is no better option than Serpent Spread, especially seeing how much that boosts your damage considering it synergizes with SO much in the SV tree (Mastery / Imp SrS / Toxicology / Noxious Stings) that it makes it more than worth it, for the situations where you do need AoE.
I think you got me wrong. I meant this one-point-over 31 that Frost spent into the BM tree to BD
THAT Point i think i would prefer putting into 2/2 Serpent Spread ^^
You’re bad. Don’ stand in fire, you won’t need 7% extra stamina.
Listen to the master! ;o)
Must say the more I see of the new talent trees the more disappointed I am with them.
It depresses me that you say the choice are pretty obvious and what you would see in most specs. There should IMO be more talents like Sniper Training which can significantly improve your DPS but require some skill to take advantage of and maximise.
So everybody can start with a base set of talents but also be aware of and exploit talents to improve as they get more skilled.
Its not like there isn’t room in the tree for at least a couple more of these..
What the hell, for example, is Counterattack doing in the tree? It’s a relic of the days when Hunter’s were part melee. Its worse than useless.
And what’s the point of “Point of No Escape”?
You have to assume that Blizzard had a process to go through every talent and decide how to take it forward into Cataclysm. In the case of the talents above you also have to assume that this process took place late on a Friday afternoon just before somebody was buying free drinks at the pub.
Well, the point of counterattack is for any sort of survival hunter that is doing PvP, to get an immobilize on a warrior or something or to help peel off a healer if you can get it to proc. The point of no escape is another pvp talent that some people use when a player tries to LoS the hunter.
Except nobody plays survival for PvP, and even if they did, they wouldn’t spec into it. Depending on a proc for a peel isn’t worth a talent point. And how would point of no escape help with LoS?
Besides, this is a RAID talent build, which you would’ve seen if you read the page properly. Not a PVP talent build. Point of no escape is useless on bosses that don’t have adds.
PS. As it will probably get pointed out, yes it is possible that Point of No Escape can improve your DPS, and, to an extent, requires some skill to do this. But it will also lead to problems and huntard accusations if, as was case WOTLK, your traps obscure AOE damage effects.
And it feels clunky at best. Instead why not have a talent that rewards players for playing well and wont risk screwing up others. Cat was an opportunity to tear up old talents like PONE and think of something a little different. e.g. how about a talent that restored some focus as a function of threat generated, that encouraged hunters to be aware of threat and not rely on FD.
PPS Credit where it is due. Not everyone at Blizzard went to the pub. Glyph of Silencing Shot is a nice example of how things should be designed.
Takes some skill to maximise and rewards a player for good use of ability other classes (and maybe they) don’t realise they have but can be a raid saver on occasions.
Thanks, Frost, that’s brilliant! Just what I was looking for
Thanks for gettin the SV tree up Frost! As my preferred spec I was awaiting to see what you thought of it. I admit though, I put that point into SSpread because I like seeing the big numbers in trash pulls >_>.
I think that single point in Serpent Spread is something you really want there. I mean AoE is not as common in Cata as it is in WotLK, but it IS there. And when it is, survivals AoE is pretty amazing. That’s 1 point that isn’t really that useful in many other places anyway.
And one point is enough, as 6 seconds of serpent sting is enough before you multishot again, and Imp Serpent Sting actually does 30% damage of the full Serpent Sting (the 15 sec one). This is typically one of those talents where getting 2/2 has little to no use.
I would personally put those 2 points from HvW into Survival Tactics as well. A short cooldown disengage is really useful everywhere.
Wouldn’t 1 point in Improved Steady Shot be more DPS gain than the 1 point in Bestial Discipline?
You would never use Steady Shot as Survival since Surv mastery directly increases Cobra shot’s damage. In the last Hunting Party Podcast frost stated that even for BM it wasn’t looking to be a DPS gain for BM hunter’s to use Steady pairs.
Had a brain fart for a second? I forgot Cobra will be focus regen.
Why dont you take the tier2 SV talent for 6% crit during frost/freezing trap?
Would seem (to me anyway) that a 30sec cooldown 30 sec duration frost trap with trap launcher to place it would net a permanent 6% crit that way for about 30 focus.
At least, since 4.0.1 bosses are affected by the 6% crit even tough the trap itself doesnt affect them.
Well I don’t have any math to back me up, but trap launcher has a focus cost, and macros still struggle with the traps as well, so their is an additional opportunity cost in the fact that priming aiming and launching a trap will likely take longer than a single GCD thus slightly delaying something else. Furthermore bosses and what not are likely to move out of a trap’s radius unexpectedly, or simply fail to trigger the trap for no reason at all > >
So while the talent may generally garner a DPS gain its probably far less than a flat 6% crit would suggest.
That said there isn’t really a “wrong” answer with the floater points. Want more HP for learning content? its a viable choice. Want a shorter disengage cool down for movement heavy encounters? its a viable choice. Want 6% more crit at the start of fights and after certain boss transitions? Thats’ viable too. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a boss you could Distracting shot with mirrored blades on for a DPS gain > >
I will say pone should have the potential for the highest DPS especially with synergy on our Marks talents, but it remains a clunky and hard to use talent and “situational” in regards to the fact that you won’t be able to use it on every encounter. I personally will take and use it over the other options but much like Resistance is futile in the Marks Specs although its a dps gain to take and use the talent it will likely not be a very large difference and there is potential for it actually cost you DPS if used poorly.
Are you sure they are affected? I have tossed traps at the likes of Lady Deathwhisper, for example, and seen them simply not trigger. They sit there for the full 30 seconds and then go away, or I think they do.
Is their any reason why we took talents to give our pet more focus over the 3 talents in one with nature? it may be an oversite but i would have thought that it would provide way more dps increase then our pets would.
Yup, because we net more damage off boosting our pets focus regen! This is especially nice now that Wild Hunt makes it impossible for our pets to cap focus at level 85. One with Nature is a particularly poor talent, actually.
May I ask how it’s a poor talent? I know it gives 30% more to aspect of the hawk which to me seems like it’s worth something even if the fox aspect isn’t. Also why are we boosting our pet’s focus regen? Shouldn’t BM be the only ones worried about that? Or do our pet’s dps make that much of a difference?
Sorry if I sound nubbish but I’ve been scouring the web and I can’t find the answers to these questions.
Aye, it gives 10% more AotH AP per talent point — which is 63.7 AP — far less than one gem’s worth (each agility is 2 AP plus some crit).
Every hunter should care about their pet! Your pet is contributing thousands of dps, even in MM or SV! The slight focus regen increase lets your pet get more basic attacks (or more with the Wild Hunt boost) which is a larger dps increase than the ap boost from One with Nature.
I at one point wanted to send in a talent sheet to you with my talent setup right after they converted to the new tree setup but didn’t know how to do so for you to check it out.
~Lycantis
Frostheim, I wanted to take a moment and just say thank you. Zephrus was the first toon I ever made on WOW, over 4 years ago and even though I start alts, I always come back to my hunter. just over a year ago, I found WHU and don’t remember what I did before it…flounder around through many a ‘trial and error’ sessions mostly. This site and the information herein has up’d my game dramastically(yup, a new word there) and I’ve appreciated every tidbit of advice I’ve found…and ALL of it I’ve found useful. For most of Zephrus’ life, I’ve kept him a SV hunter, finding it a ‘jack of all trades’ for hunters: SV hasn’t always been the top dps, but I find it to be a near perfect balance. Whether it’s trap/kiting, PvP’ing, or running Instances/Raids, the SV hunter seems to be best equipped for any situation. Whereas MM hunters do great dps on single targets and standing still, I find that(my hunter anyway) SV hunters lose LESS dps when having to transit to a different situation, say from standing still, to moving. The real point of this particular reply however is just to say thank you. I’ve found all of your advice(especially the new Cata guides) extremely valuable.
Thanks again,
Zephrus-Deathwing(alliance)
Really? awesome i will definitely have to change my spec a little and try it out. i was just taking into account the 15% boost to agility in sv, combined with the change in agility giving 2 attack power from the one attack power it used to give, to reach that idea. although knowing the testing you and everybody have done, I am sure you have already tested and disproved that theory.
A little late to the party, but with the 60% crit boost to Cobra Shot, would it be worth dumping Arcane Shot for the first 20% of the fight. I realize we don’t get piercing shots as Surv, but that huge jump in crit still seems like it might be a dps gain. Thanks for all the hard work!
Hey, i absolutely love your guides.
I was wondering if you could make 1 for PvP that woud be absolutely great
So if one reads the tool-tip for AotF then you see you regen Focus when hit… but when you read the tool-tip for One With Nature…. you increase the focus regen +1,+2,+3., my question is is that when hit or when your just in AotF???
i would like to point out that the 2/3 for 7% more stam is not needed and 10% focus gen to your pet being a sv hunter damage from your pet isn’t very good and a .6 increase to its focus gen over lets say the 3/3 one with nature witch is a 192 atk pwer gain witch a % of that does go to your pet and every 5 atk pwer is a gain of 1 dps to you and 7% stam shouldn’t be needed in a heroic or raid and one with nature is only used my hawk is active but you wont use another aspect besides fox unless moving and move cata bosses require range to move very little
I suggest you read the article, and not just look at the picture : ) I address both of your points there.
Hunter vs Wild is only used to get down to the third tier — there is no dps option for those two points, and at least hunter vs wild helps our healers out a bit. The disengage cooldown reduction is another good option for those two points.
Regarding Bestial Discipline, there’s this disturbing trend among hunters these days to completely dismiss how important your pet is — your pet, in SV, is literally contributing *thousands* of dps. It’s a big deal. And bestial discipline nets us far more dps than One with Nature does. If you don’t want to believe me, and you don’t want to do the math yourself, then at least use a spreadsheet. There’s no question about this one, bestial discipline is clearly better.
First thing I did after reading it…went to zeherah’s site and just moved that 1 point…
Before:
Combined: 22896.76 100.00%
Hunter: 19978.48 87.25%
Pet: 2918.29 12.75%
Previous: 22832.97 +63.79
After[with point in BD instead of OwN:
Combined: 22832.97 100.00%
Hunter: 19922.97 87.26%
Pet: 2910.01 12.74%
Previous: 22896.76 -63.79
Now….I could sit down and really math crunch it out but…when zeherah’s site says something is stir fried dookey balls….it kinda makes me think it may be .
Given the apparent dps “loss” Im showing….how is it a gain? Is this an instance of femaledwarf.com over valuing or undervaluing raw attack power?
Please include a link to the spreadsheet results — if I can get a look at what settings you’re using maybe we can figure out the odd behavior.
Actually figured it out….forgot to respec my pet after I got done leveling from “shark attack” into “wildhunt” ….wow….Ive been parsing pretty good rankings on WoL and Ive been missing out on several hundred dps….cause I leveled without sleeping and forgot to move 2 points…
Either way…..answers the question …maybe other people getting similar results forgot as well.
notice the loss in pet dps btw….doing it your way…..
I have a theory that putting points into the BM tree instead of MM is not all that bad an idea. I did some dummy testing and got results that — after you factor in that Careful Aim is always in effect on a dummy — made it pretty much a wash. Now, that’s also with crappy gear, and therefore a low mastery rating. Improving pet DPS rather than hunter DPS is not helpful where SV mastery is concerned. Still, I found it surprising just how good Frenzy can be. (Spec I used was 9/1/31 rather than the 1/9/31 arrayment listed here. Could have been 8/2 instead, but I like all-purpose specs and had a point in Imp Mend Pet.)
Also, what are the thoughts on Sniper Training? Seems kinda lame to me, TBH. I know the duration outlasts the requirement considerably, but 6% increase on 35% of your damage for 3 talent points? Kinda sad there aren’t better alternatives, even non-DPS alternatives, but I guess that says something about the state of Cata talent trees.
I’m pretty new to being a hunter so a quick question (probably a newb question) In most of the heroics and raids there are mobs that will need to be interrupted. Do SV hunters have an interrupt? What’s the deal with wyvern sting and scatter shot? Do they work on elites?
BeernBullets58 <<== All Hunters have Tranq Shot which is an interrupt for most bosses.
tranq shot has no interrupt component it only removes magic and enrage buffs
tranq is a debuff, but scatter shot works for an interrupt
Hi,
The armory link to the talent build is no longer working due to the armory site changes.
love your blog/guides – thank you!
As our guild progresses further into cataclysm raids I would strongly suggest putting 2 points into entrapment which is very useful for adds and trash control. In particular the Magmaw encounter when you are the kiting hunter the 4 sec stun on the parasites is invaluable. Given that you have 2 filler points in the first 2 tiers might as well put them in something that will definitely give you an edge in some encounters.
Note that entrapment on Magmaw is useful *only* if you don’t have any melee who are meleeing the adds. If there is anyone in melee range when the adds are rooted, they’ll ignore aggro and attack whoever is in range.
Sorry should have added that at least 1 point in Serpent Spread is also turning out to be a very useful investment for the same reasons as posted above.
I tried out this spec but did not do as much dps with this one: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ccZf0MZfbhcMhrRsk:Rsm
Regarding the use of entrapment in the Magmaw encounter. The 4 sec stun combined with the slow effect of the trap gives that extra time for your raid to take down the parasites. we have tried two methods of dealing with the parasites; one with all ranged/healers/mellee stacked and me kiting and the other with the ranged moving en masse from the pillars of flame. The latter was by far the more successful but in both cases the entrapment was a great help. I would also add that there are quite a few other times that entrapment has proved useful especially in some trash engagements in heroics. You can do an awful lot of damage (and avoid a lot) in 4 seconds.
I was actually just going over my spec and wondering about that, as well as for Maloriak’s abominations.
My own guild uses a different method for Magmaw and his worms, in that we have everyone, hunters included, stand on the boss. We have found that if the hunters get into melee and take 1 step back to minimum range we don’t get pillars, and we have a tank stand at range (2 for 25 man). Having entrapment for shooting serpent trap out there seems like it would help them a bunch and keep the worms under control / away from healers on initial pillar spawn, especially if it is a MD’d trap.
For Maloriak we of course let the tank(s in 25) grab the abominations, and then aoe at green phase. This is where I would generally be using it since I’m mostly BM, but serpent spread is way too nice to pass up on an add fight like this. We’ve been using Mage’s Freezing Circle to help control the adds once 9 are out, entrapment looks like a good way for me to help out as well since I am already laying out frost traps, and serpent in burn phase.
I have a question that I would please like answered. It seems that everyone chooses to spend 2 points into Carful Aim, and they all seem to argue against using points into One With Nature. The way I see it tho is that you are only getting that extra crit chance for 20% off the boss fight, after the boss reaches 80% you will loose those points. However, a 10% increase to aspect of the hawk would give you that extra damage boost all across the board. Entire boss fight, trash, everything. 10% to me seems like a strong boost for aspect of the hawk, minus the whole focus regen thing. Could anyone help confirm my theory?
I’m sorry, that would be a 20% increase for Aspect of the Hawk with two points in One With Nature*
Well, everything just changed last night with the new hotfix boosting AotH up to 2,000 AP. But to answer your question, no, when AotH only brought us 637 AP, we netted more dps over the course of the entire fight by putting those points into Careful Aim.
Now however, we definitely want one with nature!
Cool man i appreciate your reply! Looks like no need to respec then with the new hotfix.
I’m sorry, that would be a 20% increase for Aspect of the Hawk with two points in One With Nature*
I use this spec http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cZfzhZcrhcMhrRsd and with this specc is use the following rotation:
Serpent Sting, Black Arrow, Explosive Shot, Steady Shot x2, Cobra Shot, Explosive Shot”
And Steady Shot x2, Cobra Shot, Explosive Shot rest of the fight + Black Arrow whenever it needs repop.
When “Lock and Load” pops, i use Explosive Shot, Arcane Shot, Explosive Shot and continue rotation again.
Is something with my rotation or spec?
I’m using 3/3 OWN with no points in sic ‘em. To compensate, I have 2/2 points in Shark Attack with my ferocity pet for a 6% damage bonus. 3/3 OWN with 3/3 Sniper training and 2/2 Careful Aim allows me to be highly effective (imo) in single target while retaining the SV advantage in AoE with 1/2 in Serpent Spread.
Spreadsheets and theoretical dps aside, I love the SV spec for being a forgiving “real encounter” spec. No over relaince on pets / dps drop off in air phase, no danger of being bounced during a 2+ second hardcast…
I’m right there with ya, Wynterwolfe. I love the spec the way you have room for manipulating your playstyle without loosing thousands of dps for not managing technical details.
I’m also considering loosing Sic’em in favor of 3/3 OWN because of the improved AotH, though I’d like to read frost’s reasoning on the matter. Gonna test it on dummys tomorrow, too sleepy now
(I still think careful aim is better than own, but not very sure about sic’em).
What about going 3/3 OwN an dropping Sic’em with using a cunning pet with Owl’s Focus skilled?
Is the second point in Serpent Spread wasted? The tick damage seems the same, so it all depends on how long the extra mobs stay up… and a lot of the time, it’s less than six seconds. The vague tooltips are, as usual, not helping…
According to Femaledwarf.com:
Using 2 in SSpread instead of maxing out sniper training shows a 141.12 dps loss, also putting 2 in sic em as opposed to 2 in OWN shows 196.32 dps decrease. The spec your advocating is over 330 less dps than the one I am running with.
I have yet to see where 2 in sspread is required because if adds are up more then 6 seconds your raid is doing something very wrong, at least in my experience.
The spread sheet also shows going 3 OWN as a 101.77 dps increase over 2 OWN and 1 in Sic em.
Thoughts?
Frost does address SSpread vs Sniper Training above, stating that ST 3/3 is better single target. I do agree with you on OWN, though. I seem to do more DPS by going 2/3 in OWN and 1/2 in Sic ‘Em. It depends on the fight, yes… but generally speaking it’s more of a DPS increase for me. http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cMZfzMZcbGcMhrRsk is the spec I’m currently running with.
Is SV the best 25man raid spec or if not what is?
So the question seems to be 3/3 in OwN or 2/3 and 1/2 Sic Em.
Imho, from the spec you propose, lose the 2 points in Careful Aim and throw them at OwN. Getting a boss from 100 to 80% a tad faster isn’t really worth the dps lost for the whole duration of the fight…
Just my 2c…
Just had an odd thought, but is 3 points in Efficiency actually mandatory? Those 3 points primarily reduce the cost of a 6 second CD shot by 6 focus. So does that mean that those 3 points actually net us a mere 1 focus per second benefit? Am just wondering if those 3 points might be better spent elsewhere if thats the case?
Hey Thanks for the effort!
Question about swapping 2 points from Careful Aim to One with Nature:
“One thing to remember in you calculations is that you do not always get the full benefit from this talent” (regarding One with Nature)
The same thing could be said for Careful Aim. That’s only active the first 20% of a boss fight. And in reality I don’t find myself switching to Fox -that- often, and Hawk is macro’ed into my instant shots so I always get it’s benefit anyways.
You mention in the comments that after the fix to Hawk we “definitely want One with Nature” Do you mean we want all 3 points now? If so, could this be reflected in the main post?
Just a little confused. Please clarify. Thanks!
WTB edit button to fix spelling errors…
Lol…. I made this talent tree when they reverted to the new tree setups, I probably should have sent it to Frostheim. I have a newer spec that I like more and have seen a substantial difference in my DPS from my old one, aka the one seen above more or less. I love playing around on my hunters – yes I have 5 of them – just to see what works and what really sucks. Counterattack needs to go, I’ve never seen it used nor ever used it, it needs a replacement of some sort having to do with stuns… especially on paladins and rogues…
~Lycantis
Frost just updated the tree for patch 4.2, so the above post by Lycantis might be misleading to some.
I have been analysing many variations of this spec, and other survival specs out there, with the trusty help of spreadsheets such as Zeherah’s Hunter DPS Analyser, and I would like to pick up on a point mentioned earlier here. Hunters have PETS for a reason. My pet alone does 13.89% on average of my total DPS! Thats immense! Not to mention, they are AWESOME! This is through my radical shift out of MM secondary talents into BM talents. I have the cookie cut 31 in survival, with only 1 point in efficiency. As with survival, us survival hunters are not fans of using arcane shots in general. Thus, the answer is lose the focus build up, spend it on your survival shots, and give those points to your pet! 3 in OwN, 3 in BD, and 3 in Frenzy! Additionally, this provides a higher output of dps overall on average, in comparison to specs with the majority of spare points in MM. 9/1/31. This spec will make your dps better, and more efficient! forget arcane shot, your pet will love you for it!
The survival spec of 4.2, imo without a doubt. Couldn’t think of anything smoother.
Souvlaki
Jubei’ thos
Souvlaki raises some interesting points, with the nerf to careful aim, is it worth the talent points in efficiency to take down to Sic ‘em when you can go down to the 2nd tier in the BM tree? is the saving of 6 focus worth three points?
looking at the talents, the pet buffs would play nicely toward the Orc racials (for the horde!!)
Think I might use my offspec to have a play on a few bosses, with tier 11 nerfed seems like BoT migh be a good testing ground…
thinking a 9/0/32 build to max out the AoE in Srv, whilst taking the dps route to frenzy.
Hi Frost or annyone for that matter. I have a question about the new tier set and the SV haste plateaus. I’m currently running the 4 set bonus with reforged haste on my gear, so i can fire off 4 cobra shots in between explosives. I finally got my first tier 11 and therefore lost the 4 set bonus. ( I don’t have the helm /cry) As i no longer could do 4 cobras, i reforged back from haste in to crit and mastery. BUT, and this is a big but (lol). I lost alot of dps by doing this. With the T10 haste gear i average around 22-23k on boss fights. with the one Tier 11 item, i average around 17-18k. And the cast on cobra shot is soooooo slow!!! So i reforged back and kept my tier 10. The question is, wil the 2 set bonus on T11 outdps the 4 set bonus of T10? Or should i even wait for a 4 set bonus on T11 before i change?
Hi Nightrayne!
Just scrolling through this page for the first time in a while to check my comment lol and I just read yours! Thought I would give you my 2 cents, as I myself am a long-time survival hunter and am currently 6/7 Heroic bosses in Firelands with my guild on Jubei’thos.
Anyway, in answer to your question, I am assuming here that by tier 10 you meant tier 11, and by tier 11 you meant to say tier 12. Moving on this track, I myself months ago had the 4-set tier 11 bonus with the 0.2sec reduction to casting Cobra/Steady shot. As I gathered new tier 12 equipment, I chose to only replace that 4-set bonus once I had acquired 4 tier 12 armour pieces to fill all the slots in one go, with at least 2 of the 4 pieces providing me with the 2-set bonus tier 12 has to offer, as it delivers a reasonable amount of dps and is very easy to acquire through valour points. In addition, I made sure that I had enough haste on all my equipment to be able to come close to, and/or reach the ‘First Soft Plateau’, which is 2,265 haste rating or 17.682% haste. Along with that, I did acquire a fair amount of tier 12 equipment to replace old tier 11 equipment along the way to help buff my haste rating. From memory, I had about 16 point something percentage, 16.XX% self-buffed, when I made the swap. I did this through reforging, in addition to prioritising equipment with hit and haste, or hit/haste with crit as an option to reforge out of, as mastery rating for survival I found was not as good as crit rating building up to this haste plateau. Anyhow, Raid buffs will get you over the line if you are slighty under 17.682% haste.
When I replaced my tier 11 4-set with the tier 12 pieces, I found that my cobra shot cast time during a raid was then between 1.51 and 1.53 seconds.
Since then, I have acquired more and more equipment to now be equipped with full tier 12 armour across every slot, including 7 heroic equivalent pieces of gear. Currently I have a self-buffed cobra shot cast time of 1.5 seconds flat. So the only real difference between tier 11 and tier 12, is that I now have a lot more agility and crit, with a small buff to mastery, as I have reforged out of it on every occassion to haste or hit where required.
Simply put, the thing you must do Nightrayne is to make sure that when you do eventually remove your tier 11 4-set, is that you have enough haste to replace it with, and/or already have enough equipped to ensure that you can come close to the ‘First Soft Plateau’ for haste. Along with that, you should prioritise reforging out of mastery over crit, as crit provides more dps to a survival hunter than mastery does. Don’t gem for haste. Always Agility, always always always.
I apologise if you find that the majority of this response is self-centred and un-necessary haha! I guess I just have to explain it all from my experience, as so you and I too, haha yes me!, can understand why I did what I did with the tier 11 4-set bonus.
I hope you find my account on this somewhat useful
Cheers,
Souvlaki – Survival Hunter
Horde – Jubei’thos
Thanks for this webpage, & all the comments. It’s helped me tweak my toon.
1. I agree, Hunter vs Wild is pointless. We already have mad stamina from epic gear. No hunter has ever rezed from a raid wipe & thought, “geez, we woulda made it if I only had 7% more stam”. This has happened ZERO times… If you die, it’s because of a massive crit hit, well over 7%, or your own error for standing in something unpleasant, or a healer who ain’t on the ball.
2. I put 2 points into Survival Tactics instead of Point of No Escape. All heroic & raid bosses are immune to movement impairing effects, as well as most trash mobs are resistant. If they aint affected, the trap is useless, even if it was triggered. With Survival Tactics I get more reliable explosive traps, which is handy, as well as a Disengage cooldown buff, which is a complete lifesaver since feign is resisted so frequently in post-game, & it goes well with the Disengage glyph… However, Point of No Escape is a much better choice for PvP.
3. My last points went into Improved Steady Shot. Steady Shot is what we all spam in between the other cooldowns. 15% speed increase, every 8 seconds. A consistent & effective rotation translates to 15% additional damage output after the first double hit.
Huh? You did say steady shot didnt you?? lol now I,m REALY confused.
what a BULLSHlT SITE !!!!!
LEARN TO PLAY … RETARDED !
2 talent points in Point of No Escape … geezaz, you must turn the power on
1. it is used ONLY in pvp, not pve, as
BOSSES ARE NOT AFFECTED BY CC TRAPS
2. USE A TRAP LIKE THAT AND FIND HOW FAST YOU GET KICKED FROM RAID, GUILD AND GOT A “GOOD” REPUTATION ON YOUR OWN REALM, i know that i kicked ppl for this … as
EVERYONE WILL REALLY LOVE YA WHEN THEY WON’T BE ABLE TO SEE BAD SHlT ON THE GROUND BE CAUSE OF YOUR TRAP
TURN THE POWER ON !!!!!!
You need to read the article and not just look at the pictures — particularly before ranting in all caps. To quote the article directly:
“Our two talent points in Point of No Escape exist only to get us town to the third tier of the SV tree, and these can be put anywhere you’d like. Point of No Escape is excellent for AoE, since SV is often slowing groups of mobs that they’ll be AoEing down. Entrapment or Hunter vs Wild are equally valid choices here.”
Does the last point in serpent spread really count for that much? All it really does is adding 3 sec worth of dot which is not a lot considering u are re-apply it with every multi shot u make. The big gain with serpent spread is really in the first point where you get benefits from noxious stings, toxicology and improved SS.
Hmm now that im reading on improved SS I see that it’s initial DMV is based on the total time of periodic dmg.. Maybe I was a little hasty in my thoughts…
Dmg not DMV.. IPhone auto correction…
Have been playing as MM for quite some time, to a degree have tweeked my toon to pull equal dsp as most Surv speced hunters. This being said I am going with surv as my os, and in looking and considering the tree specs, ya the extra stam is pointless to have, if it’s a wipe it’s a wipe and fein death won’t help in the slightest
on raid bosses. No cc traps are useless on bosses and most raid trash but don’t negate the use of other traps such as snake, immolation or explosive. To a degree point/points in SS will help because if you can hit your refresh with cobra shot and the target is very close to death that dot will make or break the successful kill providede your healers and you can stay alive.
Het there,
great stuff, im new to wow, but used to play ranger classes in other games.
i do have one question, i see 3 talent trees with different points in it, i have so far 2 talent trees, (lvl 66) and i was wondering, can passive skills from an inactive tree still benefit you?
otherwise whats the use in having points in a non-specific tree.
my main tree is SV (hence why i posted here
)
but i have a MM tree pretty much all the way down to the max too (30 points)
how do i go about changing that i a way that will beenefit me more (as in: increase my usefullness in raids/dungeons)
thanks a million.
As a SV hunter, is it beneficial to get a bit of spell penetration?