reviewed and accurate
Reviewed 2/2/2012
Patch 4.3.2

View other WHU WoW Cataclysm hunter guides or all hunter builds. Updated for patch 4.3.2.

This guide will cover the optimal raid dps marksman hunter spec for level 85 in Cataclysm. MM hunters started the game off in vanilla as the raid spec, and the spec has had its ups and downs since. Cataclysm brings the MM hunter an excellent dps toolbox that gives them excellent flexibility at the cost of a demanding rotation.

For a MM hunter choosing talents, you want to look almost exclusively at dps. You are a dps class, and your talent spec should be designed to maximize your boss dps — because it’s bosses we care about, not trash. Any spare talent points should be focused on health and self-heals since we can’t overburden the healers as much in Cataclysm.

Cataclysm Marksman MM Raid Talent Build: Level 85 Spec: 7/31/0 +3

MM hunter talent build

Most of these choices are pretty obvious, and pretty much what you’ll see in most MM hunter builds. With the shortened talent trees in Cataclysm, we have less choice, with the result that it’s harder to make a poor spec. What’s fascinating with the MM tree in Cataclysm is how much the BM tree actually benefits us.

Our recommendation for the MM hunter build actually leaves 3 points unspent. Where you want to spend these points depends heavily on your position in the MM haste plateaus. If the haste will allow you to increase the number of Chimera Shots fired, then you want to spend these in Pathing. If not, you’ll want to top off Frenzy then toss the last two in one of any number of available talents.

Let’s take a look at a few of the talent choices that might raise some eyebrows.

Frenzy
Something MM hunters (and SV) often forget is that our pets make a very real contribution to our dps — thousands of dps in fact. Frenzy boosting pet attack speed by 30% is a huge benefit of hundreds of dps, and makes it worth even taking the somewhat lackluster One with Nature to get down to Frenzy.

Silencing Shot
Now that damage has been removed from Silencing Shot it is too often looked over. Silencing Shot costs no focus, and is not on the global cooldown. Like it or not, MM hunters are an interrupt spec and may need to help the raid. And with Glyph of Silencing Shot — a major glyph, by the way, where you don’t have other dps options — you instantly gain 10 focus when you interrupt a cast. While other classes are certainly better at interrupting than we are, it’s still a valuable tool we can bring to help the raid succeed.

Marked for Death
We put one talent point in Marked for Death, only because we needed to spend this talent point somewhere to get to the bottom of the tree and grab Chimera Shot. This is not an essential talent at all! In fact, this spare talent point can be spent in one of three possible locations:

  • Rapid Killing isn’t a great talent; however, on some AoE boss encounters it can be useful. The idea is that you’re AoEing down the adds, and every time you kill one, you get 50 focus back to continue your AoE through the Rapid Kill and Rapid Recuperation combo. Note, however, that for this talent to proc you must be the one to land the killing blow, and of course the boss adds must actually grant experience — they don’t always, but thus far in Cataclysm most of them have. So for AoE fights, this talent can help your AoE and inflate your dps numbers. Also note that you’ll only want to spend one talent point on Rapid Killing — all you care about is the focus regen through Rapid Recuperation.
  • Resistance is Futile is another talent that’s not great, but can definitely increase your dps. You would be surprised how many bosses actually move around, or are repositioned, and this talent seems to proc pretty quickly amid steady movement. When it does, it’s a free Kill Command — while MM doesn’t normally use Kill Command, it’s worth it when its cost will be refunded (and it does significantly more damage than Arcane Shot, after all). Note of course that you must have the focus to pay for the Kill Command, though you get it back.
  • Marked for Death is our final choice. MfD is situationally useful only in fights with heavy target-swapping (Omnotron is a perfect example) where it can save you the need to waste a global cooldown on reapplying Hunter’s Mark.

Bombardment
With buffs to Multi-Shot, Bombardment can make MM a viable AoE spec, though still behind BM and SV. Because more hunters are using their MM spec for AoE fights, we’re including this talent in the WHU build, even though it does nothing for your single-target dps. If you’re planning to use another spec for the AoE fights, then ditch Bombardment. See the Marked for Death discussion below for where to spend those extra two talent points.

Pathing
Again, the value of Pathing depends entirely on your position in the haste plateaus — but keep in mind that while the value of haste rises and falls with the plateaus, haste is still always beneficial — just when you’re after a hard plateau and before the next soft plateau, you can probably do better with talent points in Frenzy.

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  1. Haggland says:

    Thank you for your dedication to the hunter community, my friend. I seriously doubt others have put this much effort this early. /applause

    • Gill says:

      resistance is futile is useless, should have the point from that and silencing shot in bombardment, with a talent from frenzy put into 3/3 pathing. Hit > Crit > haste > mastery. 8/13 hm hunter.

  2. zshadeslayer says:

    Thanks for the hours and hours of work you have put in for all of us Frost.
    /salute
    /bow

  3. DarkDragoon says:

    hey frost, im curious. would it be a dps increase if you were to take 1 point out of frenzy and put it into pathing for the 1% haste? your pet would lose a little bit but, but it would increase the hunter’s a bit more, especially since MM haste is a bit more useful with increasing the chance for our mastery to proc as well, not to mention the extra focus regen. was just wondering.

    • Frostheim says:

      Nope. In fact, haste is the worst stat for MM hunters from all my testing and number crunching.

      • Aemara says:

        Hey Frost! I’m new to the site and couldn’t find the appropriate place to ask this…but I realize Cata is soon to arive and before all of it I was wondering if Femaledwarf.com was an accurate place to measure DPS? I’ve noticed several odd things about it, i.e that it says a 245 was better and more DPS than a 264, also, it told me that using Zod’s Repeating Longbow from ICC25 was worse than using Heavy Wrathful Gladiator’s Crossbow??? Now that confuses me since every Hunter I talk to says Zod’s is better, but all my testing and Femaledwarf.com says otherwise. Sorry for the offtopic question! Thanks!

      • Frostheim says:

        It’s pretty good for everything except haste — the haste values may be pretty far off, but you can play with the levels to try to get it in perspective.

        Currently on live special shots are not normalized — this means that a slower weapons does a lot more damage with special shots. This will be corrected in Cataclym. Note that Zeherah’s current spreadsheet should only be used to calculate things on live — not to plan for Cataclysm. There have been a lot of changes that aren’t on live yet.

      • Aemara says:

        So you’re saying the Wrathful Crossbow is better for now, but when cataclysm comes out Zod’s would be better? Not that anyone would be using those but in the same situation it would be, right?

      • Zeherah says:

        The issue with Zod is that it’s a faster weapon than the others you’re comparing it to. Currently instant shots aren’t normalized on live, so slower weapons are significantly higher dps. This is fixed on beta so I assume on Dec 7th you should pull your Zod back out.

      • Romulon says:

        Frost, thanks for all your effort in researching and testing the different Specs espeically that of MM Hunters and to you DarkDragoon thanks for asking the question about frenzy versus haste, its a been a big question about whether haste and any real effect on hunter dps. Frost your answer is simply and straight to the poing

      • Aemara says:

        Do you believe that SV will be topping charts come level 85? I have been watching some videos lately and the vast majority of Hunters I see are SV murdering the DPS. The reason why I ask is I didn’t see a 85 SV raiding build. Thanks!

  4. Tibbelkrunk says:

    “Rapid Killing has very little, if any, impact on our boss dps, and it’s better off skipped.

    That said, there may be some fights where the hunter alone needs to kill an add, in which case this talent might be good for that fight, but certainly not as a default.”

    If we only care about boss DPS (which I don’t necessarily disagree with), then why put a point in Bombardment? In my opinion, the very infrequent benefit from Rapid Killing in boss fights is still more frequent than the benefit from bombardment..

    I admit I don’t yet know how the boss fights look in Cataclysm, but if there are really enough situations where large packs of mobs need to be taken down by such furious AoE-ing, then as you have said, there are many other classes much better suited to doing this than we are. If Rapid Killing only triggers once in every 10 boss fights, then I venture that it’s still more helpful than bombardment.

    I am pleased with all the other talent choices, though. :)
    I have suspected for a while that Frenzy is a better deal than Pathing.

    • Dourne says:

      Sometimes you have to make it to the next tier. IMHO reducing focus cost on spawns in boss mob fights is better than the chance to get the kill shot that Rapid Killing could possibly give you, and more effective than a chance to daze and forget about runners. Definitely the best choice to get to the next tier.

      • Tibbelkrunk says:

        I’m still not convinced.
        I just don’t foresee many situations at all where we’ll use multi-shot on a boss fight. Very rarely in a boss fight are there tons of adds that are all standing within 8 yards of each other and that must be burned down with equal priority.

        The only fight I can remember where I’d say Bombardment would be a clear advantage is Onyxia. I know she’s coming back in Cataclysm, but still no amount of MD + Multi-Shotting is going to keep a pack of whelps off the blizzard-spamming mage.

      • Dourne says:

        I’m not saying it’s ideal. I’m saying you have to make it to the next tier. What is your modification if you think this one shouldn’t be used? You are a point short if you don’t put this one in and as far as that goes it appears to be the best last pick for overall dps than any of the other leftover abilities in the tree to this point.

      • Tibbelkrunk says:

        I say Rapid Killing. To me, it seems like the “best of the worst.”
        It may not happen often, but when you do get the killing blow on an add, that’s a nice 50 focus and a small bonus to the next Steady Shot (or Aimed if you’re really lucky).

        Basically, my position is that “not very often” is better than “practically never.”
        :P

    • Frostheim says:

      What Dourne said. The you needed to put that talent point somewhere, and there were no good options. Bombardment is more likely to be useful than Rapid Killing, frankly. But you can really put that talent point wherever — we’re only using it to open up the next tier.

  5. Joolsy says:

    Thanks Frost, your dedication is once again awe inspiring mate and very, very much appreciated.

    I take special note of your point that the value of Haste can appear “inflated” by the DPS Calc’s, Zehera’s (god bless her) Simulation constantly tells me that re-forging Crit to Haste is my best choice for optimisation.

    I will have to reconsider my current re-forging set-up bearing in mind what you have said – let’s face it, it’s not often we get the luxury of standing still for long periods of time with the current (let alone upcoming) end game bosses.

  6. Duckaholic says:

    Perhaps gear has enough haste to reach the cap so it’s not needed for MM?

    On a side note, you can interrupt a raid boss spell? Saweet!

    • Rix says:

      General Vezax, Lord Jaraxxus, Lady Deathwhisper. Can’t think of one from Naxx but there could be.
      But at least every later tier of content had at least one ability that was interruptible and even a necessity to interrupt at the time lest wipe be imminent.

      • Rix says:

        Oh oh kelthuzads frostbolt, one in each major tier, so we can expect the same i am sure in cata

  7. dis says:

    The only thing I’m not sure I agree with is termination.

    With the kill shot glyph and the requirement of 2 SS every 6 seconds to keep up focus fire, I don’t have any focus issues during the last 20% of a boss fight at 80. Maybe that changes at 85?

    • Wolflore says:

      Termination is not great but there just isn’t anything better at that level. It’s the same with Bombardment rather put that one point there than in RiF to have access to the next tier.

  8. Lilcheeks says:

    With silencing shot not having a damage component anymore, it should really either be moved up to a 6-10 second cooldown. That being said, I’m not going to be taking it since other classes can do interrupts with greater frequency. 1 more point in Pathing imo.

    • Frostheim says:

      That’s not another point of pathing — you need the talent point at that tier or higher in order to continue down the tree. So you don’t actually have dps options for that talent point.

      • Lilcheeks says:

        You’re right, I have 2 points in bombardment, that’s why.

  9. Armin says:

    I disagree that Rapid Killing has little effect on the boss dps. I would certainly agree it is a second rate talent compared to many others, but it is not zero. E.g. bosses like Lady Deathwhisper, Lootship, Saurfang, Dreamwalker, LK it does have dps gain. Not so much for the 10%, but the focus regen.

    So the question is more, is there a better talent. Basicly the only alternative is Termination. This is however also a sub-quality talent. The first point is OK, but the focus from teh second point, we rarely can use, because we pretty much use Kill Shot glyph and must keep ISS up. So we simply have to few GCD slots to effectively use the focus.

    So one point in termination can be easily be placed in rappid killing. Even if you disagree that rappid killing does help boss, you have to admit that removing one point from termination will see very little effect on total boss dps, but better performance in trash. Even though we don’t optimise, wading through it faster is a good thing.

    Also Rappid Killing pretty much helps dps in all phases in case a boss has adds, Termination only in the final phase. Small argument, but for me a tipper to put one point out of termination in rappid killing.

    • Frostheim says:

      Termination is a good boss dps talent! If you really want rapid killing, steal the point from bombardment, not something that actually increases your boss dps!

      *If* a boss fight has adds, then Rapid Killing *might* actually help you, but only if you’re the one to get the killing blow — *and* only if the add gives experience (alas in bosses now they don’t always).

      • Armin says:

        With all respect – because I do – but now you simply restate termination is a good boss talent. Saying something twice doesn’t make it more true.

        Because I know, you know your stuff, I’d like to hear your reasoning. If I’m wrong I will have learned something.

        My reasoning: Rappid Killing is a small dps increase because of the focus. I agree it is small and agree with your statements on limitations, but my point was termination is not “good” either. It is IMHO on par and more a personal taste.

        At the 20% phase we use 3 GCD already for Kill Shot and CS. So this leaves 7 seconds in which we fire 4 Steadies for ISS. This leaves even with so much haste you have a 1.25 cast time only 2 seconds left. The 4 steadies however already gave you enough focus for those 2 arcanes with one point in termination.

        The extra point in termination’s focus will just overcap your focus. Sure in certain fights, there may be interruptions where having this may help. But it is highly situational. Just as situational, where having rappid killing gives you the extra focus.

        You suggestion that bombardment may be better to leech, is good, but why then not propose 2 points termination and 1 point rappid killing. That would really be max raid boss dps.

        If you however insist in keeping one point in bombardment, which I do not disaprove of BTW, I see no reason to state the 2nd point in termination is “good” and the 1st point in rappid killing is not. They both are not so good.

      • saregos says:

        Armin – I’m highly confused how you figure on 4 steadies? The talent only requires 2. My gut instinct is that you’re chasing a set 10-second rotation, which may be why you’re not getting much benefit from Termination. Further, keep in mind you want 88 focus in that 10-second time, using the rotation you provide. (44 for Chim, 44 for 2 Arcanes)

        The point of termination is that you can separate your steady pairs out more. And trying to glue down a set rotation does lose that benefit.

        It’s sort of the same reasoning behind taking Rapid Recuperation – More focus allows more Arcanes and less Steadies.

      • Armin says:

        saregos,

        You need 2 pairs to keep up ISS. ISS lasts 8 seconds, so at least one pair every 8 seconds. You’ll see however because of CS constraints you need to fire two pairs every 10 seconds.

        If you don’t you either end up delaying CS, delaying KS or lose the ISS buf. Either of these things you don’t want.

        No chasing involved :-)

        E.g.:

        CS KS KS Steady Steady Arcane Arcane Steady Steady

        will be a perfect fit with 1.25 haste. Lower haste will already give issues with fitting in 10 seconds, let alone that more focus will do you any good as replacing any Steady with an Arcane will have you lose the ISS buf.

        So unless you are willing to lose the ISS, you do need 2 pairs. Something which is not completely unthinkable BTW, when combined with going cobra in that phase.

        This is the only possible – wil have to verify how it actually works out when cata comes as you lose the benefit of several MM talents – valid reason to add a second point in termination I can think of. But if I’m missing something I like to hear it. :-)

      • saregos says:

        Arm- That seems nice, except for at least one monkey wrench.

        Specifically: With the glyph, KS is technically on an 11-second cooldown. So the theoretical rotation you provide doesn’t actually work. (10 sec normal + 1 sec for the reset shot), as your KS pair marches one shot later each cycle.

        A couple more thoughts –
        I haven’t crunched the math, although I’ll wager Frost has – That extra focus might allow you a higher DPS (but possibly lower DPF) rotation by replacing at least one Arcane with Kill Command.

        And you’re still artificially limiting yourself with a set rotation – there’s no reason why you can’t go
        Chim KS KS Steady Steady Arcane Arcane Arcane Arcane Chim Steady Steady (acknowledging that this particular example shifts the KS pair by 2 seconds, but you get the idea)
        or something similar, focus permitting – aside from a heavy desire to make a 1-button macro rotation. While yes, Steadies need to be 8 sec or closer together, that doesn’t force you into the rotation you’re looking at.

        A more fluid rotation is better, as you have at least 8, 10, and 11 sec timers to watch, along with at least one (possibly too if you grab RiF) proc to watch for. And with such a rotation you have a much better chance of snagging benefit from Term.

  10. Lackies says:

    I see everyone complaining about Bombardment… I honestly am going to put that point in Resistance is Futile, and would consider taking another point from pathing to max it out. RiF is clunky and somewhat difficult to use, but I think it will proc far more often than most people think. I don’t know how many times it has to proc to beat out Pathing but the days of bosses standing perfectly still and never moving are actually the exception rather than the rule.
    Just using ICC as an example> I see maybe 3 fights where the talent is useless 5 where its reliably useful and 4 where you might get 2-3 procs a fight.
    Marrowgar- Moves for bonestorm.
    LDW – tanks move boss to dodge ghosts (sometimes), and she can move when tanks taunt to swap on normal.
    Gunship Saurfang moves/resets multiple times per fight.
    Saurfang – doesn’t generally move.
    Roface – moves for ooze explosion.
    Festergut – Might get moved if PP targets tanks on heroic but generally doesn’t get moved.
    Blood Princes – All 3 can move although the Shadow bolt guy probably moves the most reliably.
    BQL – Moves during phase transitions/first bite.
    Valritha- no good targets here although you could waste GCDs marking the zombies that hunters regularly kite… but obviously this encounter strongly favors rapid killing.
    Sindragosa – definitely procs when she goes airborne/lands. The proc is somewhat useless at those points. After blistering colds she also readjusts to the tank which may trigger procs. And Tanks swaps also cause occasional procs especially if the tanks flip the boss.
    LK – Moves all the time from Shadow traps, to Defile, to Vile Spirits.

    Anyway not saying RiF is the best talent ever but I am not so quick to write it off without actually raiding in Cata since plenty of bosses remain are looking to be mobile in the first tier of content.

    • The only thing I would add to this is that I don’t believe RiF procs on the Marked for Death mark — only if you use the actual Hunter’s Mark. Still, most bosses (even Blood Council after the first wipe) give you a chance to toss up the Mark before combat, and it’s only one GCD anyway.

      And I could be wrong.

      • Lackies says:

        right you have to actually cast Hunter’s Mark for RiF to work. Which is also why its bad for add heavy fights like Dreamwalker. Where as if it worked with marked for Death it’d be somewhat OP in that same situation.

    • Frostheim says:

      Actually I’ve been thinking about this exact same thing today. I tossed the point in bombardment just to get down the tree to the talents that really matter – but Resistance is Futile is probably a better place for that from a boss dps perspective — you’ll certainly get much more use out of that than Rapid Killing.

  11. JesFine says:

    Can you explain why you took a third point in Bestial Discipline over One With Nature? I have not noticed any focus issues with my pet (at least at 80). Does this change when we get to 85? Or does the 30% attack speed bonus of Frenzy affect their focus enough that this point is necessary?

    • Lackies says:

      Frenzy doesn’t make pets use focus any faster.
      Pet Focus regen is better at 80 than 85 due to your probable 50-65% crit rate on auto shots + GfT. My napkin math suggests that when your auto shot crit rate drops to approx 20% you pet’s overall focus regen will drop by ~15% ( even more when taking into account your haste effects like ISS and Heroism). Furthermore Sic ‘em’s uptime will also be reduced as a result of a lower crit chance.

      I don’t claim that any of this information makes Bestial disc better than One with nature, merely pointing out how a Pet’s focus regen and overall focus is changed at 85.

    • I had the same question, actually. I think level 85 Aspect of the Hawk has 637 attack power by default, so that’s about an extra 64 AP over 10% increased focus regen on my pet. It might not be much, but it feels to me like that’s a clear improvement.

    • Frostheim says:

      The new Wild Hunt affects this a lot — it’s not just a matter of your pet having enough focus for their basic attacks, but when they have over 50 focus their basic attacks hit much harder (and cost more focus).

      Thus Bestial Discipline isn’t wasted, and as long as it’s not wasted it’s gonna be better than One with Nature.

  12. Papewaio (Blackhand) says:

    “And with Glyph of Silencing Shot — a major glyph, by the way, where you don’t have other dps options — you instantly gain 10 focus when you interrupt a cast.”

    This statement doesn’t match the wording from the glyph, the glyph states: “When you successfully silence an enemy’s spell cast with Silencing Shot, you instantly gain 10 focus.” The glyph doesn’t say ‘interrupt’ or ‘stop’ an enemy’s spell cast.

    When SilShot first came out, one it’s big issues was that it only had a silencing component, it did not have an interrupt component. This made it useless against bosses because they couldn’t be silenced, they could only be interrupted. It was a considerable time frame after the abilty came out that they added the interrupt component to it.

    So going with the wording on the glyph, if SilShot has to ‘silence the enemy’s spell cast’ and bosses can only be interrupted and not silenced, will the 10 focus proc occur on boss fights?

  13. Ariat says:

    I had a question regarding pet focus regen. At the moment I have 2 points in Go For the Throat and 2 points in Sic ‘Em (with no points in Bestial Discipline) and my pet is almost always focus capped. I’m sure a great deal of that is due to my high crit rating which will be going away in Cata, but at 85 how starved for focus will my pet be with max points in all three of those talents?

    • Ariat says:

      Just noticed the posts about this a couple above me, but further clarification wouldn’t hurt.

    • Frostheim says:

      You need the Wild Hunt talent. Right now at 80 with our crazy hit crit levels, Wild Hunt is an awesome talent that you want 2 ranks of.

      Come cataclysm and level 85 (for which this guide is written) you’ll still want 1 rank of Wild Hunt, but the value drops because your pet goes over 50 focus far less often.

  14. Ivanhoe says:

    Frostheim, you wrote: “Silencing Shot costs no focus…” Since when? Is Blizz changing this for Cata? Currently, it costs 35 focus and the glyph only refunds 10 of that. I’m currently specced in Silencing Shot, but almost never use it because I’d rather spend the focus on a dps shot and other classes have much better interrupts and silencing talents.

    • Frostheim says:

      It costs no focus now, even on live. Perhaps you’re confusing the 35 yard range with a focus cost?

      • Lupsur says:

        No, look at the tooltip for Silencing Shot in Marksmanship talent tree (on live). It said it cost 35 focus :)

      • Frostheim says:

        It does not.

        If your silencing shot is actually costing you focus in-game, you have a strangely unique bug. It should not cost focus, and the Silencing Shot tooltip should not list any focus cost.

    • Tibbelkrunk says:

      You must be thinking of Tranquilizing Shot.

      Silencing Shot is free and independent from the global cooldown, whereas Tranquilizing Shot casts 35 focus and uses a GCD.

      Silencing Shot is nice and thought-free enough to pop whenever an interrupt or silence is necessary (like MDing a caster mob to a tank), but Tranquilizing Shot is really only worth using in very specific situations. Even then, a shaman or mage can Purge/Spellsteal a magic effect or a druid can Soothe an enrage effect with much less of a detriment to their DPS than our use of Tranq Shot.

      • Tibbelkrunk says:

        Tranq Shot *costs 35 focus (not casts).

        Also, forgot about a priest’s Dispel/Mass Dispel.

  15. saregos says:

    Hey Frost, a couple questions for you. First, what glyphs would you recommend here?

    Second, I was wondering the best way to handle the Glyph of Kill Shot. It seems to allow 2 approaches – First, firing 2 at once then waiting the 10 seconds for the CD.
    Second, firing 1 every 6 seconds or so and exploiting the cooldown on the Glyph itself instead of the ability’s cooldown.
    My immediate thought is that the first is better (2 per 11 sec vs. 2 per 12), but wanted to verify.

  16. Rikii says:

    Frost will you be leveling 80-85 as MM as per your vid
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__NRdapzgQA&feature=player_profilepage

    and if so could you post a recommended spec, I see you two shot everything with Aim and CS/AS…Makes it all seem to go so fast to level.poor pet gets no action lol

  17. Lupsur says:

    I wonder if you get one point from Pathing and move it to One with Nature you won’t increase dps ? I suppose we can increase haste only from gear. I didn’t play Cataclysm beta but i suppose lvl85 gear will have a lot more haste than old gear and 128 haste won’t be so hard to get.

  18. gubby says:

    first of all id like to thank frost and his buddies for providing us with a concise and informative forum. i must admit though that i am a simple dwarf who likes to bring “point and shoot” . after reading the article and the comments i have come to two conclusions. one: i am way behind in the science of our craft and two: my head hurts. so much info has my head spinning.
    As i open my bottle of aspirin, i was wondering , after reading this article, if dropping the points in Pathing and putting them into Spirit Bond. i only say this as it was stated that we need to help out the healers and that haste was not a good stat for us hunters in Cata. im sure our healer brethern would appreciate not having to worry about us as much.

  19. Rix says:

    If someone wanted an extra point for something, in a raiding situation I would forget about trueshot aura all together.
    I run in a 10man we’ve always got either 2 paladins or 1 paladin and a druid, In a 25man your trueshot aura is going to be pretty useless.

  20. Whitefyst says:

    I agree mostly with the MM spec listed, but I have one major suggestion for improvement. That is moving at least one and possibly two points out of Termination. The reason for this is that if you:
    1) are still casting 2 pairs of SS a CS cycle to maintain ISS
    2) have the KS glyph allowing you to cast “back-to-back” KSs
    3) have at least 3.34% haste from gear with the 2/3 Pathing listed and the 10% speed raid buff (this provides a 1.5s SS cast time)
    you already cannot spend all the focus you have without Termination. Under these conditions a sub-20% 11s “rotation” of:
    KS-KS-CS-SS-SS-AS-AS-SS-SS
    yeilds a net of +6.67 focus and an average net of +17.67 focus assuming an AI replacing an AS every other CS cycle. This means that you do not need either point in Termination sub-20% boss health.

    Now for that 5% of boss health between when Termination goes into effect and KS becomes available. With no points in Termination, you still get a focus positive “rotation” with the minimum 4 SSs 2 out of every 3 cycles and 5th SS every third cycle. A single point in Termination will make your “rotation” focus positive with the minimum 4 SSs per cycle.

    Hence, I would suggest removing 1 or both of the points in Termination to Bombardment or Rapid Killing (at most 1 here). Although I agree that RK is a limited talent in certain certains, it is huge in others, especially when doing AoE and in 10-mans where there is less competition for killing blows. Each killing blow, energizes two more Multishots (and all the WQs from it) assuming that you have the buff from the crit of a previous MS reducing the focus cost. And you can increase your chance of getting a killing blow by timely uses of KS.

    • Frostheim says:

      Kill Shot is a perfectly acceptable glyph choice; however, right now it’s not mathing out to be one of the top three for MM — with the much tougher Chimera in Cataclysm the Chimera glyph becomes very strong, though you have to have the discipline to hit it on cooldown.

      Also, while you want to maximize your Imp Steady uptime, don’t get too glued to the idea of a fixed rotation — be flexible and do whatever gets you the most dps. Losing a second of imp steady for an extra arcane shot is a new gain at the end of the fight (steady is much stronger in those first 20% with careful aim though).

      • Whitefyst says:

        I use the term rotation loosely. It is more of a guideline that is adapted to the situation and in which the shot order is not fixed with the constraint of the SS pairs. And of course, a focus neutral cycle is no longer needed as the target is about to die and all focus can be dumped at the end.

        With the current numbers on live, CS glyph is not a good option, and I have not been on beta/PTR to see how much better CS is, but I can see how it could be.

        But even with the CS glyph, I still believe that Termination is a bad talent if you are maintaining ISS. I see the standard above 20% boss health cycle (with still assuming enough haste for at least a 1.5s SS cast time) as:
        CS-SS-SS-AS-AS-SS-SS
        with having a slight negative net focus of -4 but a positive net focus of +7 when factoring in AI replacements of AS. And this is without factoring in any Termination for the 25% to 20% of boss health.

        The sub-20% “rotation” as like (once again this is just a guideline since KS floats on the 10s CD in the 9s cycle):
        CS-SS-SS-KS-AS-SS-SS
        with having way more focus than needed at +18 per cycle normal and +29 with AI replacement without any points in Termination.

        Now, I had not previously considered the option of 2/2 Termination and not maintaining the ISS buff 100% during the KS range, so I am thinking it through here.

        If I drop both SSs in the second pair, that frees up 3s for 3 ASs for a cycle like:
        CS-AS-SS-SS-KS-AS-AS-AS
        3 ASs instead of 2 SS is definitely a DPS gain desite ISS uptime dropping from 100% to 89%. However, even with 2/2 Termination, that cycle has a focus deficit of -43. Plus, the loss of the ISS buff occurs during your SS casts to restart it, which causes the cast to be longer than 1.5s, which pushes back the CS cast a little eating into the benefit of the glyph. (Of couse a little more than 3.34% haste will help tighten things back up and lessen the focus deficit a little).

        Replacing one of the ASs with a single SS does not seem to be a good option since it pushes back the CS cast by an additional 0.5s, although it does get the cycle close to focus neutral.

        Hence, it seems that if the KS range is going to last more than 18s (2 cycles) that you would need to “alternate” the 2 SS cycle with the 4 SS cycle. With a 1:1 ratio, this is maintainable up to 63s (7 cycles) if starting near 100 focus. The ration can be adjusted on the fly with more or less 4 SS cycles depending on how long the last 20% will last.

        So the 2/2 Termination trade off with the CS glyph is basically (with assuming the conservative 1:1 ratio of the cycles):
        - 1.5 AS versus 1 SS on average
        - About 94% ISS uptime versus 100% (minor impacts to autoshot and WQ)
        - the benefits of the talents you would be using instead of 2/2 Termination, which are talents that have more situational benefits (although those benefits can be large in some situations)

        This should be a gain over what I had planned, but I will have to wait to see the numbers at 85 to see by how much.

  21. sabaw says:

    Quick question:
    Come cata, would JC+ENG be the best profession DPS wise?
    Im planning to change a prof come cata and im deciding between ench, jc and maybe leatherworking.

    JC seems to be the best for me atm given its slight advantage over ench (+1 agi) and its flexibility. LW seems cool too with the huuuuge agi bracers enchnant, though technically youd have to give up the +crit enchant.

    What do you think?

  22. Myrdreon says:

    You should switch 1/2 Termination with 1/2 rapid killing.

    Termination is only applicable if the target moves (few bosses do), and at that its a low chance.
    1/2 rapid killing gives the rapid recuperation 50 focus option, and adds that die during a fight are quite common.

  23. h4z3 says:

    I agree with the 1 point in Resistance is Futile(it’s not called Termination, that’s the talent next to RiF)for a couple of reasons…

    1) Boss’s move more often than we think, and even then adds move all the time and RiF is always re-calculating itself upon movement and I’ve noticed it procs quite often for only a 4% chance.

    2) Rapid Fire doesn’t help us that much in a boss fight even if there’s adds. What most of you are forgetting is that in order to get the proc from it, you need to land the “killing blow” on your target. In a boss fight how many times are you the ONLY one attacking adds? Far too few times is just the Hunter called upon to solo down adds.

    3) It’s the best of the worst available lol. We basically only take it to move down to the next tier, it’s just one of those cases where there’s nothing that really helps our DPS and we need to move on down the tree. RiF just happens to be the best choice out of the talents left in order to do that.

  24. Valilor says:

    Hey Frostheim,

    I have a few questions/points:

    1) I think you have a picture up of RiF when you’re talking about Termination (and some people are getting the 2 con-fuddled).

    2) It might be too early to say but could it be beneficial to forget about Imp SS when the boss is at 25% and just taking 2/2 termination and using all the excess focus you have on arcane shot spam?

    3) I’d probably take the point out of barrage and put it in 2/2 RiF and let the lesser DPS classes deal with the trivial things such as AoE. AoE? LoL more like.

    Oh and Whitefyst – Hi from EJ forums (I’m too scared to post there).

  25. chevlss72 says:

    Please help me –

    After the release of 4.0, my DPS took a significant hit (like all hunters). I’m a MM hunter and after the release, i was approx. 7-8k on the Heroic dummy. I follow the shot rotation recommended here. After a 2 week break, I came back to my hunter DPS now even lower than before. I have absolutely no clue what to do.

    I’ve reforged my extra hit to mastery (hit currently at 242). I could move more haste to mastery, but like i said before, I’m at a total lost.

    Here is a link to my hunter:

  26. gibzors says:

    Hey Frost! Great work.

    I got a couple of questions. Well, first I see a lot of people complaining about a point in Bombardement, but in the spec you give there is no point there, I guess it was changed before I first saw it. It’s probably the point that’s in RiF now. I agree that bosses move a lot more than we think, and a lot of fights give the chance to put the Hunter’s Mark on adds that move more, while the boss has the MfD effect.

    Given that we’re using that, isn’t it worth changing the 2 points in pathing to Imp Kill Command? Making a free (though circumstancial) skill more deadly seems a nice option, I guess it depends on how bad/good Pathing actually is.

    Another alternative I’m thinking of is taking one of those Pathing points One With Nature. Right now is not a big improvement but starting at 81 Hunter’s Mark gets a lot more attack power bonus (1220 up to 1772 at 85), so maybe it becomes a useful talent then.

    Thanks

  27. Ivan says:

    First off thanks for this site Frostheim and these guides have followed you and this site for years and can’t thank you enough. However I have tried and failed different mm specs I found one that works gr8 now thanks. Tho got a suggestion from a hunter in a top 3 guild here in it and he did say I should dump imp stdy shot tp’ s .. I gust said man do some reading but could he be rite?

  28. Ivan says:

    I mean like as I see it I don’t want to not get atleast 2/3 in improwed steady shot. That’s 10% at speed bonus for 8 sec , or I’am completely wrong here?

    • Frostheim says:

      Of course you want 3/3 imp steady shot — 15% attack speed bonus with nearly 100% uptime in most fights!

      • Ivan says:

        Thanks for clearing that out, as I thought. Keep up the great work frost & arust!

  29. knowlge2 says:

    So am I picking up the BM talents before the Surv talents after im done spec’ing the MM tree? Or vice-versa?

  30. Grismon says:

    Isn’t Improved Serpent Sting a good talent now? Not for the instant damage, but 10% increased crit chance for SS ticks is not bad in my book. I didn’t do the math whether it’s better than Frenzy or not, but it’s a nice boost nonetheless.

  31. Kertesz says:

    Would it be better to spend the first 2 points in Improved Kill Command than One with Nature?

    • Shorts says:

      I would say “Yes”, assuming you had the talent point in “Point of No Escape”. As a MM hunter, I don’t use Kill Command, which is all that PoNE has an effect on, so if you ARE going to use it, best get the most benefit I say

  32. Shade587 says:

    Hey, I’m not claiming to know everything about hunters, but I tried out the above spec on the raid target dummy and only got to 9k dps even for my top dps and only staying leveled around 8.4k. When using the spec that I had gotten mainly from Elitist jerks and tweaked a bit I was hitting 10.7-10.9k as my top dps and staying level around 8.8k or 8.9k dps. My character’s name is Charien on the Gilneas server if you would like to try that spec.

  33. Solides says:

    I don’t see the point in putting 2 in Marked of Death; I see that more of a benefit towards PvP, so therefore it’s probably better to put the 2 in Concussive Barrage, or Rapid Killing, because you need to slow adds for a lot of the new bosses, and Rapid Killing can be a small, but noticeable DPS increase.

    • Solides says:

      Let me remind you Marked of Death does NOT stack with Hunters Mark.

  34. Emrakul says:

    Judging by the earlier comments, stating that haste isn’t the greatest stats for MM hunters in Cataclysm, wouldn’t it be a good idea to put another into One With Nature then get 1 in Pathing?

  35. Emrakul says:

    Also could we put that 2 in Pathing somewhere else..if MM hunters DON’T need haste?

  36. Iron says:

    Hey frost thanks for your help on these builds i ususlly dont dig much into the numbers so your a big help thanks for your time and work

  37. Wellhard says:

    Link seems to be broken Frost?

  38. knuff says:

    I’m found of this spec.
    http://www.johannormen.com/spec.JPG

    (the link is safe I can guaranty that)
    Silence nice to have (maybe not needed for all raids if got nice interrupts.) but rather 1 or two point in Rapid Killing than in RiF. Thou there are some bosses with adds etc and that’s a nice extra buff for some sec.

  39. Wolf says:

    ok frost got a question for u on here u list Resistance is Futile as a talent we should get yet it only works for kill command yet dont list kill command on our rotation so therefor wouldnt it be more useful spend the point somewhere else? also on a unrelated spec question is there a whu guild site working on a hunter to take to icecrown to join the guild with would know to know current cap so i can try to catch up to the rest before i transfer it

  40. knuff says:

    Why not use Bombardment it’s nice at AOE fights… And the Rappid killing is nice too…
    I don’t think the RiF is that helpful though you need to use a kill command for it within 8 sec?
    For some focus, in 8 sec you will probably get lots of focus back in a synced rotation.
    And 10% extra on adds or on boss when turning around and nuke for some sec is a nice buff :D

    • Skarn says:

      If you are looking for AoE damage, go Survival. There is no competition here. Bombardment is not a good use of points. If you are REALLY set on AoEing as Marks, then sure. Take Bombardment. But…just get SV as your off-spec.

      Rapid Killing is useful, IF you get the killing blow. In a raid this becomes very unlikely. Especially if said boss fight doesn’t even have adds, like Chimaeron. Or the Twins. Or Atramedes. Or the Ascendent Council. If you really have no where else to put it, Rapid Killing is fine, but you won’t use it much in a raid. Resistance is Futile is also very iffy. You’ll probably find it useful on a boss that moves a lot like the ‘Trons. It’s free damage, which is very nice.

      • knuff says:

        is it? I can’t find info saying I must do the kill? But if that’s true then it sucks.
        I only find info that everything that can give XP works. But maybe not in Raid group?

        I know that SV is better at AOE. But I would that talets very usefull at magmaw and Cho’gall though it mostly are a stand still fight beside the few AOE steps. I still got 1-2 top in DPS as MM over SV. And that talent really rock in my case though I do a huge damage in that short step.

        And I think tha’ts a lot batter then Marked of death. Though there is no use put a hunter mark on AOE adds. And the two adds at Cho’gall I use a macro that mark and send my pet to attack then turn around and throw trap and nuke that add. So that extra GCD is no waste at all in this case. Still top 1-2 in DPS on that fight. And nice dps on the adds… At omnitron no need for Marked of death either though I need to send my pet to the new add anyway and my macro marks the new one. And then I use MD before nuke… Still top 1-2 in DPS on that fight too.

        At all others bosses it’s mostly stand still and nuke.

        And Resistance is Futile is really crap though I don’t use kill command in my rotation. So better to get som nice AOE buff than waste point in marked of death and Resistance is Futile IMO.

  41. Obzen says:

    I’ve had much more success as a raiding hunter with the spec posted bellow. Resistance in futile I found ruined my rotation. And Trueshot aura is a lost buff in raids with many other classes carry (being flat 10% AP Pallys gotcha covered.) Termination only brings extra focus regen at that final 25%, which i found to make the rotation awkward and to have a lot of ‘focus rotting.’ The only big difference being I take concusive barrage and bombardment, simply because so many fights require a strong AOE.

    My name is Obzen on Tichondrius, and I pull 20k+ DPS on bosses. Feel free to armory. I hope this has been helpful!

    Happy Raiding.

  42. Malania says:

    With the changes in 4.1 is Bombardment now worth taking, is pathing much better due to the Aimed Shot’s you’ll be doing for hardcap or is serp sting better?

  43. Narzul says:

    The spec i use since the Multi Shot buff enables sustained + add slowing AoE without compromising on our single target DPS – http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ccbcZfRGRGoMuboM:czV

    I dropped Marked for Death + Termination + Resistance is Futile in favor of Bombardment + Concussive Barrage + one point in Rapid Killing. Bomb allows you to spam MS a lot more, RK procs more then you’d think (especially on 10 man), giving you more MS focus, and CB slows the adds.

    Dropping MfD + RiF + Term is hardy a DPS loss. EJ’s Marksmanship post explains why a lot better then I could.

    The build makes a huge difference in add-rich encounters, especially on Magmaw and Cho’gall, but as well on Halfus, Maloriak and Conclave. In my personal opinion, not speccing for sustained + add-slowing AoE on these encounters as MM borders is somewhat irresponsible.

  44. Killian says:

    With the repost on the mainpage, it’s probably time to tweak the default to match what they’re using over at simulationcraft.

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#hunter-0230030000000000000230232103211023122102000000000000000000

    The spec Narzul mentions is also quite good–each will be slightly stronger depending on the fight. For target-switching fights (Al’Akir, assuming you’re on add duty in phase 2), I’d use the SimCraft one. For single-target/blanket AoE (Magmaw, for example), I’d use Narzul’s.

  45. Corn says:

    I’m not sure about dazing kited adds in Maloriak HC via concussive barrage being a good idea.

    Resistance is futile has no place in any PVE MM build.

  46. Konik says:

    there is no one optimal PvE MM build, it always depends on raid comp, buffs and specific fight

    - in AoE fights like Magmaw, Maloriak, Cho’gall, Halfus you should have 2/2 Bombardment + 1/2 Rapid Killing

    - as stated previously RiF shouldn’t be in any PvE build

    - haste is great for MM hunters and 3/3 pathing is in most cases best choice

    - if you have Pala, Blood DK or Enha in your raid group often you might put point from Trueshot Aura somewhere else and same for Silencing Shot if you have many interrupters in your raid group

    • Narzul says:

      3\3 in Pathing vs. 3\3 in Frenzy is another story. Where you put the last point depends on many variables – haste plateaus, tier 11 4 set bonus, Chimera Shot glyph, Rapid Fire glyph, potential raw haste rating from gear, latency… We need to know what we’re aiming for to decide where the last point gives the most for our buck.

      • Konik says:

        can you elaborate on this please? having t11 4pc, 11% haste from gear and CS glyph what do you prefer and why?

      • Narzul says:

        I don’t want to write a full post in a comment, so I will try to be as brief as possible -

        Haste does several things for us. The two things to take notice of when calculating haste are -

        1. When is Steady Shot cast time below the 1 second GCD due to Dynamic Haste Effects (Bloodlust, Rapid Fire etc.). To achieve this in Rapid Fire without t11 4pc, for example, we need 5.4% haste with RF glyph \ 12.9% w\o RF glyph. With t11 4pc, we need 1.6% w\o RF glyph, but we need 9.5% for BL (and an unobtainable 21.6% w/o t11 4pc). The rest of the current DHE available require more haste to achieve that, but stacking them is not recommended.

        2. When does Steady Shot cast time allow us to weave in another GCD in our Chimera Shot rotation, which is sometimes referred to as our “haste plateaus”. 0.25 second separates the plateaus. SS’ cast time is calculated after 10% range haste buff provided by the raid and 15% ranged haste buff provided by Improved Steady Shot.

        Without the 4pc set bonus, in order to weave in 2 GCDs and get SS’ cast time to 1.5, we need 5.4% haste. To weave in 3 GCDs and get SS’ cast time to 1.25, we need 26.5% haste, which is unlikely to be obtained with current raid content.

        With t11 4pc, in order to weave in 3 GCDs and get SS’ cast time to 1.25, we need 13.8% haste. This is an amount that CAN be reached with gear, though we may not want to do so because -

        A. It will require heavy reforging on expense of other good stats.
        B. The third GCD may be SS anyway due to focus-starved rotations.

        That being said, we may want to get more then the haste needed for the plateau we’re aiming for, in order to compensate for factors such as movement heavy encounters \ latency etc.

        You’ve mentioned that you have the CS glyph. That does not affect above calculations, it simply reduces the number of GCDs per CS rotation from 10 to 9.

        You don’t need to be a human calculator in order to be sure about your CS rotation. Simply take a shammy with a Windfury totem or any other +10% ranged haste buff, put 2\3 points into Pathing, go to the dummy, weave in 2 SS to activate ISS. Now simply check your SS’ cast time on the spell book \ cast bar addon and whether or not you’re comfortable with your CS rotation.

        Hope this helped \ was clear.

  47. Konik says:

    thanks a lot mate

    I used Zeherah haste calculator http://femaledwarf.com/haste/ for this calculation and I got 1.2568 sec. (43.217% attack speed bonus) with 2/3 Pathing (ISS 3/3, +10% haste buff) and 1.2446 sec. (44.621% attack speed bonus) with 3/3 Pathing

    does that mean that I’m almost fine with 2/3 Pathing due to ~1.25 SS cast time so CS delay would be minimal?

    • Narzul says:

      @Konik:

      Another factor I’ve neglected to mention is how focus positive \ negative your rotation is. You technically CAN use a CS \ 4 SS \ 3 AS rotation (order flexible), but you will get focus-starved pretty fast and have to resort to an extra SS which, in turn, messes up your rotation.

      I do not have t11 4pc, so I haven’t done the math for its rotation. However, Whitefyst from EJ has, and he recommends a CS \ 5 SS \ 2 AS rotation with t11 4pc, CS glyph and 3\3 in Pathing. This is the rotation I use but without t11 4 pc + CS glyph, and for which I have done the math. For hunters without t11 4pc, you need 1235 haste from gear (with 10% haste + ISS + 3\3 pathing) to get to a 1.4 SS cast time in order to make this rotation sustainable. I have slightly more to compensate for lag.

      Another thing to take into consideration is the Master MarksMan proc which, with 5 SS per cycle, procs roughly every other cycle. During the standard phase of 80%-25% \ 20% (depending if you have Termination talented or not), use AI from the MMM proc instead of the 5th SS for a tight 9 seconds rotation. According to Whitefyst: “on cycles without an MMM AI proc, you will end up delaying your CS cycle by about 0.25s, which is not ideal but is not bad either.” Also, if you find yourself focus-starved, use MMM instead of an AS.

      I hope this answers your question

  48. Lornehil says:

    From my experience, Termination is not nearly as good as it seems at first glance. With the killshot glyph you don’t have a whole ton of gcds to spend that extra focus in and end up capping yourself too much. Even without it I still found my rotations to be far more focus positive than needed. Honestly, if I was going to talent it it would be 1/2.

    I know aoe damage is looked down upon in terms of boss damage because it isn’t for single target but really, there is enough times where you need to have good aoe damage in a raid boss setting that not having it doesn’t just make you look bad it really is a problem. In something like black phase in heroic Maloriak if you are paying 40 focus for every multi shot you are massively gimping yourself. Or in heroic Chogall where the slime adds need to die and die as quickly as you can possibly do so, you again are screwing yourself.

    Lornehil – Garona

  49. george says:

    “Haste isn’t a terribly good stat for MM hunters in Cataclysm”

    “In Cataclysm our MM hunter shot rotations are more affected by haste than ever before.”

    ?

  50. Jenna says:

    Is this spec talent tree as good as it gets?(: Or is there something i need to know? I’m never to sure about specing. With all the patches it’s hard for me to keep up in the little time i get to play.
    I’ve never played around with survial…but i’m kinda interested. Is MM preferred over SV?

  51. Pierre Abarca says:

    Please correct me if i’m wrong. The point in Silencing Shot is not needed to get the next tier with that set-up. Therefore you have an extra talent point to spend.

  52. Panosru says:

    Hello Frost, I want to mention that silencing shot is not needed in order to process down the tree as it said “not to mention we need this talent point to get down the tree” also I didn’t took Resistance is Futile because in my play style I noticed that I’m not using kill command almost at all so since I have two points I spend them into bombardment since I found myself lot of times to tell to myself “ah if I had couple more multishots now would be perfect!” -specially for magmaw adds-

    Also I removed one point from frenzy and added it into Pathing so frenzy is 2/3 and patching 3/3, I kindda see it is a small dps increase for me.

  53. Lunitsias says:

    Just wondering, what do you have to say about putting points into Rapid Killing, I really don’t feel like Termination does squat. If you can kind of explain Termination being better than Rapid Killing, please tell!!!!

    • Frostheim says:

      …. I would suggest reading the article before commenting.

      • Lunitsias says:

        I guess I should have rewritten my comment… I’ll admit I did skim over this article, but I did read the information about Rapid Killing before I wrote this comment and I agree with it. However, again, I just feel like Termination is useless so why not use Rapid Killing instead? There are fights like Magmaw and Maloriak that have adds that need to be handled. I always land a killing blow so I don’t see how that wouldn’t be helpful. Termination grants 6 focus below 25% health. I don’t modify my rotation for that spare focus anyway. And why cheat Rapid Recuperation? “Also note that you’ll only want to spend one talent point on Rapid Killing — all you care about is the focus regen through Rapid Recuperation.” But of course- you said it yourself. I suppose that is where the 3 points at the end come in. I just don’t get why you wouldn’t include it onto the build and leave it for preference when Termination doesn’t really seem to have much of a use either.

  54. Acelightning says:

    So, I have 3/3 Pathing, 2/3 Frenzy, before that I did not have point in frenzy, to be honest, I’ve seen maybe 200 more dps?
    Also, for boss fights, I suggest speccing away from rapid killing. It’s not even all that good in heroics.

  55. Fuzzyelf says:

    So, I have a question. I use this spec: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ccbcZfMGohRRuroM and I pull pretty decent DPS. For boss fights, I’m usually pulling around 11-13k and my iLevel is 349 right now. Is there anything I could/should change to improve my DPS. I should also mention that I reforge some stats (like mastery and hit since I’m hit-capped) into haste. I currently have 1477 haste (13.76%) rating but I’ve read from two different sources that haste is the worst stat for a MM hunter. I do okay but I was just wondering if I should change anything to improve my overall DPS?

    P.S. I just wanted to say thanks for this site. I’ve used it for a long time now and it’s helped me a bunch!

  56. EagleEye' says:

    General comment:
    The title today (Aug 2011) says “updated for 4.2″.
    The text dos not match the links.
    For example -
    The text for Rapid Killing says you get 50 focus back while the link says that you get 10% additional damage, no focus gain.
    The text for Frenzy says 30% attacks speed gain and the link says 6%.
    Overall an excellent article, as usual :)

    • Frostheim says:

      No offense, but you need to read a bit more carefully. Rapid Killing combined with Rapid Recuperation gets you 50 focus — as stated in that paragraph.

      Frenzy, if you read the whole tooltip, stacks 5 times, for 30%.

  57. rtyecript says:

    I really liked the article, and the very cool blog

  58. Axemastr says:

    I cant seem to find any guides relating to Lvl 80 hunters who only have Wotlk. Did you guys abandon it, it sure would be nice to see those guides again ty Axemastr

    • Frostheim says:

      Heh! The old Wrath guides are still here somewhere, but you’ll have to go digging to find them — and then they won’t be up to date, since they’ll be talking about things like having mana!

      There isn’t a lot of point in making vanilla/bc/wrath guides for the tiny group that is playing only that expansion (of which, vanilla is the most popular).

  59. bubbles says:

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ccbMZfrGoGRMuboM

    if u ask me :)

    4 nasty aoe u can always take the 2points from pathing and put it in Concussive barrage (Cho’gal comes to mind)

    and is nicely round up 4 single taget pwning :) no need to respec before boss figts.

  60. Predåtor says:

    Hello,

    First i want to say thanks and give a big cheer to Frostheim for his awesome work and his passion for the hunter class and community. Keep it up :D

    Also i want to post a link for the MM talents with a very slight change:

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ccbcZfRGoGRMuboM

    Wich is totaly avoiding the talent Marked for Death. Seems a perfect all rounder for aoe and it is not sacrificing not even one sigle target dps talent.

  61. Denea says:

    I have a question… I don’t understand if the haste is good or not for a MM hunter.. in my equipe i have reforged only for crit or hit.. in fact i have the cap with hit rating and 30% critical but my haste rating is very low (2.13%) and i have not the pathing talent 0/3. Now my question is… haste rating is essential for dps? thanks for this beautiful guide :)

  62. Iulius says:

    i have a question:in 4.3.0 what’s better MM OR SV for PVE raiding?
    bcs i saw that 15%+ for explosive shot and it made me mad

    • Wargh0st says:

      It actually depends on the fight your in. Sv is still better for aoe and control. While mm trives in other area’s. It’s your own choice. I can’t really say any of them stands out.

  63. Chucknorrisisahunter says:

    Before I ask my question, I just want to say thanks frost for being the go to guide for everything hunter.

    I returned to playing a couple weeks ago after a long break (since wotlk) and have. Even noticing my ranged shots are dodged/blocked about 3% of the time. I don’t remember that ever happening in wrath. I looked for some reasoning or if we can use expertise like a melee, but could not find any useful info. Is there anything we can do to fix this?

  64. Timoleon says:

    So out of curiosity….if KC is part of the MM rotation, would IKC in the BM tree be a viable two points? It’d be increasing the crit chance by 10% of your harder hitting (between AS and KC) focus dump. Just not sure where to take the two points from.

    1 from Pathing, 1 from Frenzy?
    1 from Frenzy, 1 from Bestial Discipline?

    Decisions, decisions…

  65. nightstálker says:

    ok… i put a post up yesterday. and i canm’t find it anywhere. lol how do i find it again?

  66. Megz says:

    I’d like to thank you for this site/post. After the Cata expansion, my main (hunter) was just too difficult to figure out. Today I’m working on getting her raid ready, and this post, along with many others from this site have helped me IMMENSELY. Again, awesome post(s)…and I’m quite grateful, as now I’ll (hopefully) be able to get back into the swing of playing this class!