We did not remove the minimum range of hunter shots intentionally. If it’s happening, it’s a bug.
Okay, deep breath.
I will now kill myself, in one of the following ways:
- Drown myself in a used toilet bowl
- Get a hundred yards of rope. Tie a noose around my neck, and the other end to a telephone pole. Get in car, open window, feed rope though window. Floor it.
- Pay some neighborhood kids to kick me in the nads until I bleed out.
After toying so cruelly with my heart, all of these seem preferable to the taunting of having the min range removal dangled in front of our faces. Which way is best, do you think?
After looking at the last 2 posts, ROFLMAO
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu……………………..
LMAO you didn’t really think they were going to make it fair like EVERY OTHER ranged class for us did you?
this is so ridiculous
To quote Hrist:
*shoot self*
LOL, I commented on the last one… Guess I jinxed it
Meh, knew it was too good to be true… Though how I wish it was T_T
I hate to be the spoiler but it reeked of desperation on Blizz’s part to make focus work for PvP
http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/
I think that button is appropriate for this build.
/SUPER SAD FACE
im gonna go cry in a corner now. with my gin. till i cant feel my feelings anymore. or anything else for that matter :_(
also, id go with number 2. will make the best story on the news. kids kicking you in the balls will make you look like a weakling, and the toilet is just humiliating.
Geez Frost, nothing actually hunter related?
I would have had more of a:
1) Attempt to tame a crocodile while wearing a suit made of bacon (’cause who doesn’t like bacon?)
2) Go to your local zoo and see what a momma-bear thinks about you trying out the cub tossing quest
3) Tie some dynamite to your shoes and find out how bad a rocketboot missfire really is like.
Ah well. As long as they stop making bosses like Marrowgar with a 3 province wide hitbox that _everyone_ but the lone hunter can hide inside of, we’ll be fine as we do more than okay normally (short of arena but I have no real experience there).
I’d shoot myself in the face but I can’t get enough range :<
Or you can race change to a night elf and use a bow, that should be enought to make u explode.
@ Fern
You have no idea just how ridiculously long I laughed at your comment. XD
It just seemed…. Way too perfect.
And yes, you are the hunter of all Hunters……
-Piggypig
That blows…
But use the time for questing as you will not have to kite or jump shot anymore (or atleast till they fix it.)
I would think something actually involving minimum range…with a wild animal…
Maybe poking a grizzly bear cub with a dull stick while her giant mother looks on…
You’ll come to understand the impact of minimum range quite quickly…
read all three posts….knew it wasn’t gonna happen…waited for the shoe to drop…and it did
Did Marrogar last night on my Drood. They had great heals so I went Boomchicken for the fight. ( I am a NOOB Druid ) I could happily sit “anus ajacent” and cast my “ranged” spells. The two hunters in the group were (of course) 1/2 a mile away.
It does SUCK
If something sounds too good to be true… I saw it coming
#2 will not work cuz fooring it will have no effect ;-D
They would never give us any thing good because they know Hunter’s have the unique ability to adjust to adversity unlike all other classes which need all the help they can get.
# 2 will work. I work for the Police Department in my city and a man in a neighboring town actually did just what Frost described. The rope actually completely decapitated the man and the heat generated as the rope as it went through him actually cauterized the wound and there was little to no blood.
I WISH I could say this comes as a surprise……but no.
On another note, mmo-champ link a list of 8000+ items. Just found that :
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/61392/monster-arcanite-steam-pistol-offhand/
Curse it, it’s a sword!
T_T
Maybe it’s only a “sword” because they haven’t changed the tooltip code yet. /hope
“I will now kill myself, in one of the following ways:
* Drown myself in a used toilet bowl”
That my friend is EPIC!!! LOL
Seriously, I know it looked good, but… It was too good to be true.
guess it would be too “OP”…
Damn that sucks rollies.
But i have a question if ANYONE could answer it would be most appreciated (not related to minimum range
) the new camoflage. is it actual “stealth” like night elves shadowmeld or?
Bah. That means more irritating distance issues for us. Why does every other class function up close if need be?
In the words of Joey Wheeler:
“BROOKLYN RAGE!!!”
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNN!!!
/crys in beer
Having just gotten into the Beta (though the Guild Contest), and trying out the Worgan Hunter, I can only hope that they do not fix this until they fix the dead baby pet issue. At least this way we can still shoot when we do not have a pet to tank for us…
With the current beta build, does MM will tend to reach [url=http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=53299]Point of No Escape[/url] ?
Lauching trap on a boss and get a 6% crit for 30s? (expecting it considered the boss is affected by a trap which shouldn’t be).
I guess 6% for 30s is too short. And wasting 2 CD + aiming for launch.
I think Férn said all that needs to be said.
The min range thing is starting to become a bit of a joke now, not so much for pve but moreso for pvp. This week myself and my 2v2 arena partner (a holy pally) spent THIRTY-NINE minutes trying to take down a warrior/resto shammy team in Dalaran Sewers, while all the time the warrior was stuck in my face with me unable to get more than 2 or 3 consecutive shots off on him, in the end it took a combination of freezing arrow/wyvern sting/web and hammer of justice to CC and burn the shammy into oblivion before i could grind down the warrior. With a lack of minimum range that fight would have taken no more than 90 seconds, like almost every other arena battle.
Please blizz, give us some parity.
Justa i know what you mean.
i can’t even belive that blizzard havn’t changed this already i mean what the hell are we supposed to do as hunters when we get immobalized every second in arena and the other team’s healer running around the pillar and only comes out if you dmg the dpser and then quickly goes back behind the pillar, and you wont get enough range to use aimed shot so they get 100% heals yay way the go blizzard!
I’m going to have to say am glad it was a mistake, if we have no minimum range it would be unfair on the other physical damage classes (I know we are a hybrid magi-physi but let’s not get into that here), for us to deal the same damage in ranged & melee zones would be like allowing a warrior to use guns as affectively as we do and I for one don’t want that… they really would be tanks then, covered in plate and pewpew’ing for a distance, it’s what make our class unique (even if it kinda sucks) but look at the alterative, a sneaky little rouge hiding with Zod’s bow waiting to unload a few 3-4k arrows at you, a Pally wielding the Stakethrower blowing the crap out of us then bubbling up and skipping away…. Keep it as it is I say, otherwise the change will need to be applied across all classes, which means giving better ranged abilities to all melee classes.
Now Shhh! Be Vewy, Vewy Quiet. I’m Huntin’ Wabbits!
Yes SelmaFudd because our melee attacks are just a powerful as melee classes…………
@Obnxs You missed the point a little, our melee attacks are pi$$ weak as are melee classes ranged attacks, but if we have no minimum range then this effectively makes our melee zone attacks (all our normal ranged abilities) “just as powerful as melee classes” melee zone attacks. So Hunter with no minimum range is like a Warrior with a sword that can hit anything & anyone within 30 yards….. or a Rogue that can stun and cut you down without standing anywhere near you….
I know it would make our class better, but so would having two pets active at the same time, having a 2000% speed mount or being able to shoot friggin lasers beams out of our @sses, but it isn’t going to happen and shouldn’t happen.
Now Shhh! Be Vewy, Vewy Quiet. I’m Huntin’ Wabbits!
I noticed one of the casting classes got most of its spell ranges increased 5 yards as well. I think it was the mage. So I don’t see how they’re making up for our lack of “being able to get away and do damage” yet. They’re taking away a melee strike. It needs to be replaced with something. Fox was supposed to be it. Now what?
*replaces used toilet bowl with a really shallow bowl of dwarven stout that will immediately rouse Frost from his suicidal thoughts and make him jump out and fight! – at range, of course – once more in the name of WHU*
In my opinion, a hunter that has no minimum range in PvP is much too powerful and will have to be balanced somehow — and what if that meant losing disengage, deterrence, master’s call, or all of the above? I’d rather see more situational tricks for getting out of bad situations and I hope we keep our minimum range.
He felt our collective pain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cGAC6D7eng
Ravik,
What if Switching to Fox removed all slowing effects? It wouldn’t remove snares, roots, or freezes, but at least we could move a bit faster out of melee when we are hamstrung or whatever.
I understand not wanting to give us the human racial, but something that makes sense with fox would be to allow us to move at normal speed away from melee no matter what they did to us, as long as we can move.
Ravik, two words:
Frost Mage.
Parkerr, that’s an interesting idea but I suspect that this would too be imbalanced since we don’t have a significant cooldown associated with changing aspects. We would pretty much have master’s call with a 1s CD in that scenario and would become way too good at kiting melee.
Justa, I don’t really have a lot of problems with frost mages. Their damage is pretty gimp so they’re usually dead before becoming an issue due to me not having enough defensive cooldowns. A really good frost mage that uses ice block more offensively is a different matter but they are rare and if they’re really skilled then they have the right to be able to take me down.
I think if hunters had min range removed, we’d probably want to remove master’s call, or maybe tweak a couple things for balance.
It’s a little frustrating, however, hearing “if hunters could shoot in melee they’d be OP” without any explanation. Let’s keep in mind that *every* other ranged dps class can attack in melee. Their max dps is the same as ours. They can ignore armor. They can do a similar amount of dps on the move. Mages have more control (slows, roots, blink, sheep, temp shields) and kiting ability than hunters do.
Tell me *why* hunters would be OP shooting in melee when none of the other ranged classes are.
What Frost said, pretty much.
Ravik, the Frosts i come up against on my battlegroup can and do get themselves into your melee range and proceed to completely gimp you into oblivion while you’re sat there unable to even turn. It’s horrendous. I do concede though that if you get them at range their dmg output is crap.
In my opinion, it boils down to hunters not having to worry about cast times. Yeah we have steady shot / cobra shot but we don’t really use them much in PvP unless we’re pretty safe or have a way to get out should melee close on us, for example. Some of the other ranged classes have instant dots but doing 10k damage over time is far different from our chimera shot hitting for 10k. If given the choice, I’d take the instant damage. At any rate, the mages might have more tricks but we keep out damage high while running away.
Having said that — this is just my opinion of how Blizzard looks at the situation. It might be very interesting to hear what Loinclothz has to say about this when you have him on the show in the near future.
P.S. I’m a huge fan blah blah blah … keep up the awesome work blah blah blah
Frostheim ofcourse it wont be true as long as a hunters main shot have an instant cast time, then hunters will never get short range removed.
Its as simple as that…
Thats what differenciates us from other range clasess, our special shots have instant cast.
They would obly remove short range if they make our shots have a 1/2 second cast time etc or w/e the case is.
Currently in cata every spec has two standard instant shots (arcane and their special) that are moderately high damaging shots — but not as much throughput as many other class’s instant damaging abilities. I don’t think our instant (ie: on the run) dps capability is such a great strength compared to other classes that it compensates for the great weakness we have that other classes do not.
Warlocks and mages can do about the same dps on the move as we can, and mages have a much higher burst (not sure about locks burst potential). They also have much better control than we do, with the ability to dps their cc’d target.
Now I’m a pretty new hunter, (WoLK baby), but I definitely agree with Frost on this. I would be alright with the “minimum range is important” chant if someone would give us a REASON. I don’t want a simple quote slapped onto the box (Fragile: Any change will break the world), I want honest to goodness facts, numbers, ideas, thought processes. I want them to explain to us why we’re so very, very detrimental to the world.
Okay, I might agree with you there. Our damage on the move probably isn’t enough to compensate for the crippling effect the deadzone can have… but it is something. At this point I’d rather get more tricks than have it removed. The constant battle to keep melee at range is fun and sometimes I lose and get pummeled but the risk is what makes it fun for me.
Someone said something earlier about frost mages and that is probably the only time when I really would like to see it removed — when I’m caught in a frost nova with the mage behind me. When other ranged classes are exploiting it then that feels a little wonky.
Come on people, not many of you here are taking an objective view on the subject. Sure it would be great, but it’s just not fair on the other classes.
One other thing that worries me is the amount of hunters that place themselves amount the ranks of warlocks and mages, I for one am not a cryokinesis or pyrokinesis practicing pillowcase wearing squishy!
Here is another way of looking at it –
Scenario #1, Change the warlock & mage to have the same minimum range dead zone, now look at a duel between a warlock and a warrior, once the warrior gets into melee range he would be able to wreak havoc on the clothie in seconds if he couldn’t cast anything.
The clothies need to have no dead zone for survivability; we as hunters have mail & a bag full of trick to get out of the dead zone.
Scenario #2, Every class can do the same damage in melee & ranged (sounds absurd, but this is what you are asking for the hunter) and as I said above, letting us do the same damage in both range & melee is like letting a rouge Eviscerate or Envenom for 20 feet away. You’ll remove one tactical aspect of the game, Kiting for hunters and stunlock for rouge/warrior/pally, pvp would be nothing more then a duel in the main street at sundown were two people would just stand still and blast away with the hopes that your damage is bigger then your opponents damage.
Scenario #3, Only the hunter class is change like you’re all asking for and we become like every other range class and these are reasons why “we would be so OP” if this happened –
1. We would have better armor then other (shammy is the exception) ranged classes, this will only matter when fighting melee but armor doesn’t matter against a caster anyway.
2. Our shots are not susceptible to interrupts (as far as I know) like other casters are.
3. We still have more abilities to remove ourselves from melee range once we decide too (HP getting too low, more opponents incoming etc.) then the other melee.
To implement this and achieve a balance we would need to wear cloth, have our shots interpretable and remove disengage, wingclip, maybe one of our frost traps and concussive, wyvern sting or scatter shot.
Excellent, let’s examine the reasons you say we’d be overpowered:
1) We have better armor than many (but not all) of the classes that can do the same thing. On the other hand, our damage is also mitigated by the generally higher armor of the melee types, unlike the other casters. Also keep in mind that many melee classes have attacks that ignore armor — pallies, DKs, rogues, shammies, etc. The armor isn’t as big a difference as many think, though it is an advantage, and one we share with shammy ranged class. However the clothies have stuff like shields of various kinds to compensate for the armor difference.
2) Our shots aren’t susceptible to interrupt — we do suffer pushback, we have abilities affected by silence, but we can also have our ranged weapon disarmed (which isn’t something that affects casters). Still feels balanced to me. We have the same weakness that is applied by different abilities — a disarm hurts us as much as a silence hurts a caster.
3.) Well sure we have more ways to remove ourselves from melee than other melee do! Melee *want* to be in melee!! All ranged have more ways of getting away than they do. However, I’d argue that mages are better than we are at getting out of melee. And don’t get me wrong, we’d *want* to get out of melee – just like all ranged – but when our opponent is at 15% health and charges us rather than hiding and waiting on heals, we could actually kill them, rather than desperately running away.
I really don’t care about us having a minimum range. I think it is part of being a hunter. Also in PvP that rarely hurts me. If I have to fight in melee space, I’m dead anyway. And most of the time I’m stunned, rooted, feared, etc so I wouldn’t do damage.
Removing minimum range would for me, be another step in making hunters accessible to the great mass of potential huntards. Learn to live with it or hand in your pet and role a mage
In PvE I rarely care anyway. Only when teammates in e.g. marrow are too lame to unspikle me, because they have to walk out of their hitbox or so. But that is more a lame teammate issue, that something else.
And in PvP, the biggest issue is our lack of sustained (that what Frost calls burst) damage. So we relly on our peak damage (what I would call burst). And that has been nerfed in Cata, and sofar Blizzard has not found a solution. The good news is, that they are now finally aware of it. So I expect some changes before launch.
I think our definitions of sustained (usually referred to as “pressure” in arenas) damage and burst is the same.
Right now on live hunters have good pressure and crappy burst damage. We lose that pressure if anyone is attacking us and is smart enough to close into melee, forcing us to move where our dps plummets.
It’s hard to say where we’re at in Cataclysm, since they aren’t yet balancing dps, and either way who cares what the level 83 balance is. Certainly we have better burst than on live — or at least BM and MM do. SV doesn’t have much burst.
To continue the Mage analogies:
I’ve seen mages run into melée range on a hunter and completely own. While the hunter tries to escape the Frost Mage roots and continues to deal damage knowing the hunters melée attacks are as dangerous as an infant gnawing on your face. Hunters need to be able to have some form of dmg in close range, even if it’s one shot that’s useable in melée.
INSANE! wow really? we can go outside and shot someone at point blank range. why not in the game? although i do not condone people to go outside and shot someone, just a figure of speech. maybe im wrong but does it look like blizzard hear so much bad talk about huntards they are just raising our hopes on somethings then cruching us when they say “we are sorry, our mistake. thats no gonna happen” or “aoe? ok use multi-shot!” lol im at a loss.
Blizzard giveth, and taketh away.
Great site! much appreciated.
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