New beta build. Much to learn. Here are the short notes:
- Pet design pass not done yet
- Still working on movement — new Aspect of the Fox lets you cast cobra/steady on the move, and generates focus when you take damage. OMFG.
- Misdirection now says that the threat transfer is not permanent and fades away after 30 seconds. The question is does that threat fade away, or does it go back to the hunter?
- New SV talent that when you cast Multi-Shot is applies Serpent Sting to all of the targets (not yet implemented)
- Base focus regen still about 4.16 focus/second
- I can’t figure out how to downscale my UI in the new video settings.
UPDATE: Also it looks as though they have wiped ALL pet scaling out, probably to clean the slate for the pet design pass. Thus our pets in beta are currently getting no attack power, armor, or health from us. This makes me very glad I got the BM soloing bit done earlier!
Ghostcrawler says:
We’re still following this discussion. Some players are making some good points and we have addressed some of these in our most recent builds. Here is a quick update on some of the issues being discussed:
Focus — We think we’re in a much better spot for focus regen now. Our goal has been for focus to be a resource you spend on your higher damage shots, which is regenerated passively at a rate lower than energy regen, but faster than energy if you are using Steady / Cobra (which can only be done while stationary). At the lower regen rates, we found it felt bad if you couldn’t Steady / Cobra rather than Steady / Cobra feeling like a bonus. We think we’re closer to the sweet spot now, but please let us know (preferably after you’ve actually tried it rather than prophesizing doom).
Aspects — We’re not happy with the way the Hawk vs. Fox choice is playing out. We think that ultimately either damage or focus regen is going to win out and the other aspect won’t get much use. For now, we are going back to Hawk being used for damage and regen. We’ll discuss other potential uses for Fox. Changing Aspects will not affect focus regen.[Frost note: this is not implemented in the new beta build yet -- still regenning focus from steadies while in fox]
Mobile damage — This is always a touchy subject. In our testing, we found that it wasn’t fun with the current implementation when hunters had to move around a lot, especially in PvP. This is why we are giving up on the current Aspect of the Fox design. We also significantly reduced the focus cost per damage of Arcane Shot, so that it is usable under almost all circumstances. We’ve also removed the focus costs on several utility abilities (e.g. Concussive Shot, Intimidation, Bestial Wrath, Scatter Shot, etc.) One potential use for Aspect of the Fox is to generate additional focus when you take damage, but we don’t want to get back into a world where you are “aspect twisting” when someone comes into melee with you in PvP.
Survival — We’re still iterating a lot on this tree in particular. We agree it’s probably the least polished of the hunter trees so far. The reason is that we just have it in for Survival hunters.
Pets — As I posted in another thread recently, a pet scaling pass is underway. We still plan to do passes on the hunter pet talents and abilities as well. With the design that allows you to swap pets often in the field, we want to make sure that there are some interesting choices in which pet you use for a given situation. Provided they are all crabs.
In case I need to say it, the last two sentences of the last two paragraphs are not meant to be taken seriously.
Note on the new implementation of Aspect of the Fox: not only can you cast steady/cobra on the move, but you can have all sorts of fun with it too. You must be facing the target when starting the cast, and when the shot fires, but in between you can run in circles, face the opposite direction, whatever. Furthermore you can even fire while jumping, or start the cast while jumping. Neat!
O…M…G ASPECT OF FOX = WIN!!! it’s getting more and more insane but sad times for the survival hating :’(
My pets behave really weird after this patch.
Some lose all scaling, some lose it then get it back then lose it again… then get it back, just to lose it while fighting 3 mobs : /
My fox has lost Dash, it’s even gone from the talent tree. And it now has prowl.
Hmm… Shooting multishot giving all the targets serpent sting?
Looks like survival hunters are going to save a lot of mana <3
Eh… Focus..
What does Ghostcrawler mean by ‘aspect twisting’?
“Misdirection now says that the threat transfer is not permanent and fades away after 30 seconds. The question is does that threat fade away, or does it go back to the hunter?”
I hope Vengeance helps tanks with threat generation and this change affects rogue’s ToT, otherwise, NEEEEERDRAAAAAAAAGE. >:(
GC said: “Mobile damage — This is always a touchy subject. In our testing, we found that it wasn’t fun with the current implementation when hunters had to move around a lot, especially in PvP. This is why we are giving up on the current Aspect of the Fox design.”
and Frost said: “…new Aspect of the Fox lets you cast cobra/steady on the move, and generates focus when you take damage. OMFG.”
OMFG indeed. I like this MUCH better then being able to auto shot on the run! As Frost and the crew at the Hunting Party Podcast have pointed out in the past, we can already do that with stutter stepping
But this, oh my…. yes, this would be nice ! This would be a god-send for PvP if they still let Steady/Cobra continue to regen focus in Fox. It would also make movement intensive fights much, much nicer, or at least more bearable 
This ability alone would go a long way towards Fox being the de facto PvP aspect. Now add in that I’ve heard they also changed Fox so it will give you focus when you’re hit as well, and I think we have a winner. Hawk for PvE since we usually don’t have to move too much, and Fox in PvP, and the *really* talented hunters will still probably twist if needed for movement situations.
GC wrote: We’ll discuss other potential uses for Fox. Changing Aspects will not affect focus regen.
I would hope that this would imply what I said previously, that Steadies/Cobras should still regenerate focus in fox. Actually, come to think of it, this statement would seem to indicate that they plan on returning to the old Steady/Cobra model of regenerating focus, where the focus regen was built into the shot itself, rather than the aspect you were in. Consider this: What is the point of having Aspect of the Wild if we couldn’t use it because we’d be focus starved for any fight where nature resistance was needed ? No point at all. So, personally, I’m keeping my fingers crossed that common sense reigns.
Frost said: “Misdirection now says that the threat transfer is not permanent and fades away after 30 seconds. The question is does that threat fade away, or does it go back to the hunter?”
*sniffle* :’(
Could this be part of what they’ve talked about with decaying threat for tanks in Cata ? It would really suck if that lead-in threat came back to bite us in the bum, lol. This would also be a terrible change for soloing and pet tanking >_< When I'm solo'ing big nasty mobs, the threat from MD is critical to keeping them angry at my pet and not me, lol. As it is, I already have to FD quite often, even after double misdirecting my pet when soloing bosses in old content.
Oh, speaking of MD, are they going to change it's duration to be more in line with Tricks of the Trade, or vice-versa ? Its always annoyed me that rogues had more time (2 seconds naturally, 6 if glyphed) to transfer threat than we did, when they had a 1 second GCD to our 1.5, ON TOP of which they also gave a damage boost. Grrrrrrr. In wrath, I think their damage boost from Tricks is going away, at least, and our GCD is going down to one second, so has any feedback been submitted to normalize this aspect ? With us having mana, I could at least understand, but now that we'll be on a different resource mechanic, an extension to Misdirection would be welcome. Also, if the threat goes away from it anyway, then there's no long-term issues with the tank building up too much threat. Thoughts ?
Damn, I need to stop critting with those walls of text >_<
@Corwyn
I believe GC is referring to when hunters used to have to switch from Hawk to Monkey when we were closed on in PVP, and then back to Hawk once we got range. I could be wrong, as I didn't really PvP very much till the later half of BC. It was one of the reasons for dragon hawk's creation, and one of the reasons (maybe the primary one ?) that aspects GCD was separated from the rest of our abilities.
Speaking of aspects, has anyone in beta suggested feedback requesting they be changed to function a little more like paladin auras and DK auras ? Specifically, so we can change them while mounted, eating, and so forth ? It'd not be too big of a change, and would be a nice quality of life improvement.
@Necrie
or at least give us a stance bar like…every other class with stances/auras/presences
They did give us an aspect bar: http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2010/07/cataclysm-beta-hunter-news-aspect-bar/
@Frost
A small request, can you dedicate a little time to test PvP implications on these changes? I know PvP mechanics are drastically changing, but still, throw us a little PvP bone plz =)
Multi-sting, finally? Survival spec looks great for Cataclysm so far! I am very excited.
I just came up with a crazy idea for an aspect which would not end up being default (at least not for PvE), but yet very useful. An aspect which does not have the AP bonus like Hawk does, but which lets hunter attack in melee range. On fights like LK you’d switch to it as the Valkyrs are coming, disengage back out and switch back to Hawk asap to get that AP buff again.
Ofcourse the Hawk AP bonus would need to be significant, but if Hunter’s Mark is 1.5k AP, why can’t Hawk be upgraded too?
I suppose Fox will get redesigned a lot more in the future, how it is now sounds way to overpowered for PvP, but the other aspect would be nifty to have alongside.
Bit more on topic. I don’t think damage on the run was a massive issue for hunters. Not in PvE at least. Have a look at the top parses on fights like Rotface HC. Hunter’s excel there, why? Because you’re forced to move every now and then, but in theory don’t have to lose any DPS if you move the right way. Oh well, we’ll see how things end up.
oh sorry frost missed that post, consider my comment rescinded.
As for shooting on the run if anything I think the changes will bring us down to the level of other classes ability to do so, seeing as we excel at it now.
As for hunter’s mark, the only reason they made it better was to make sure hunters would see a reason to use it, with the standard increase in stats we see every expansion and the fact that mark doesn’t scale with them additional rank(s) were needed. Its not an “improvement” its more of the same. Now if they made it scale with gear…that would be worth talking about.
Ok, my 2 cents on the movement issue with hunter’s vs other classes. We need to be able to hit harder while on the move. Reason: if we don’t move anything that can close into melee range kills us. Granted mages, priests and shamans have a similar issue BUT they can dps when in melee range, hunter’s cannot. This is in fact part of the issue with PVP and hunters. We need to be able to stay at range and still dps while on the move and make the other classes think a bit about just closing with us to melee range. I say this because at least on my server there are not very many hunters that actually PVP as compared to other classes. It is just not time cost efficient to dedicate the learning of those skills at the cost of PVE skills used in raids or other content outside of PVP. And yes I know that some of the skills are usable in both arenas, but with a limited amount of time to spend in game it is just not feasible to learn all the skills and maintain them.
Interesting stuff. Just a little pissed on the ‘Mobile damage’ comments. This is what PvP hunters have warned him for since the first moment focus was mentioned.
First they responded by – after they first thought they didn’t have to – made defensive abilities focus-cost free. Added traps to be focus free.
Then they realised that still you’d have to little shots per time and because – apparently didn’t want to boost damage per shot further – reduced focus cost on arcane.
But they – oh surprise – they learned this would make Fox too cool in PvE that it was over powered … Just as predicted that there would be a balance problem.
Sorry for the rant, but common …We told you almost all of this *exactly* a year ago. It’s simple math.
That said, the PvE stuff looks very interesting. Now let’s hope they dig themselves out of their own created PvP hole quickly
I’m sure they will though.