Okay, MMO-Champion is reporting that the NDA for the Cataclysm alpha has been lifted, and they are reporting on all the current info in the game. Incidentally, the closed beta is now starting, though it may be a few days before all the invites go out. You can see the full MMO-C hunter coverage Here.

I have to say that through various awesome sources, I’ve known about everything here for a while, and it’s been all I could do to hold it in. This stuff is awesome. It blows away the class preview we got a few months back, I think you’ll agree. So here’s the giant rundown of what we now know. For the talent sections I’m only going to list new or changed talents, and I’ll try to note what the change was; however, I’m running off the top of my head here, on pure memory, and it’s late, late at night and I’m tired. So please drop a comment with anything significant that I missed.

Disclaimer: this is still the beta, and in fact this is the very start of the beta. Everything is subject to change, and probably lots of change. None of this is final. Remember, the beta is just now beginning.

Hunter Ability Changes (all specs)

  • Stings and Venoms
    Serpent Sting will be our only “sting” and it will work just like it does now. In addition to Serpent Sting, we’ll have various “venoms” and only one venom can be up at a time. So you can have Serpent Sting up, and one venom of your choice.

    • Scorpid Venom Reduces the targets armor by 4% for 30 sec. Subsequent Steady Shot or Cobra Shots increase the effect by 4%, stacking up to 3 times. Only one Venom per Hunter can be active on any one target.
      30 Focus, 5-35 yd range, Instant
    • Viper Venom Increases the casting time of all spells done by the enemy target by 30% for 30 sec. Only one Venom per Hunter can be active on any one target.
      30 Focus, 5-35 yd range, Instant
    • Widow Venom A venemous shot that reduces the effectiveness of any healing taken by 25% for 30 sec. Only one Venom per Hunter can be active on any one target.
      30 Focus, 5-35 yd range, Instant
  • Camouflage
    You camouflage, causing you and your Pet to blend into your surroundings. After 3 sec., you will enter a camouflaged state for 1 min, making you untargetable and providing stealth while stationary. While camouflaged, you and your pet’s movement speed is reduced by 30%, but the damage done by your next attack is increased by 15%.
    You can lay traps while under the effect, but any damage done by you or your pet will cancel the effect. Cannot be cast while in combat.
    45 Focus, Instant, 1 min cooldown
  • Aspect of the Fox
    The hunter takes on the aspects of a fox, increasing your focus regeneration by 20% and allows you to Auto-shot while moving.
    Instant, 1 sec cooldown
  • Aspect of the Monkey/Dragonhawk
    It looks as though Dragonhawk is gone entirely. Aspect of the Monkey looks like it’s only available as a BM talent, and works completely, radically differently (see the BM talents section)
  • Kill Command
    This is going back to an instant pet attack; however, it costs a bunch of focus. There seems to be a bunch of talents that interact with it to make it more attractive, at least for BM.
  • Cobra Shot
    Deals weapon damage plus [ 6% of RAP + 950 ] in the form of Nature damage and increases the duration of your Serpent Sting on the target by 3 sec. ( Aspect of the Hawk : Generates 9 Focus. )
    5-35 yd range, 1.5 sec cast

Okay, that’s a bunch of awesomeness right there. Let’s go through a few of them:

Cobra Shot
We knew about this, but what’s interesting now is actually seeing the Cataclysm coefficients of both Cobra and Steady Shot. Cobra Shot is 6% RAP + 950. Steady Shot in the alpha is currently at 10% RAP + 0. I have to assume that the “+0″ on steady shot is in error (it’s currently +252) but I’m sure the idea is that Steady Shot will be hitting for more raw damage; however, it’s a physical attack and will be reduced by armor. Right now it’s looking like probably only MM will want to keep using Steady Shot, with the additional armor pen they get through their mastery bonus. BM gets Cobra-specific boosts, and SV gets boosts to their elemental damage with their mastery, so will probably prefer the boosted armor-ignoring Cobra Shot.

Camouflage
We also knew about this, but seeing the actual wording shows it to be badass. It is, in fact, actual stealth when you’re standing still. In theory when you’re moving you’ll still be targetable and kinda able to be seen.

Stings and Venoms
Viper is now pretty much a pvp venom. Widow is also – mostly – a pvp venom with the new mortal strike debuff (all mortal strikes are now 25% healing reduction instead of 50%). Scorpid is probably our go-to venom in pve content; however, its armor reduction is exactly identical to that of the new Sunder Armor (3 stacks of 4%) which makes me think it’ll be considered the major armor debuff and won’t stack with Sunder Armor. This means that in raids, we may well not want to use a Venom at all, and save that focus for something else. The exception is that MM will occasionally want to use Widow Venom, because with Chimera Shot, it is awesome. But more on that later.

Aspect of the Fox
Pure super awesomeness. The 20% focus regen is, to me, the big aspect of this aspect. This is what helps us maintain our focus while on the move, while kiting, in movement heavy boss fight phases, and movement heavy pvp sections. Keep in mind this isn’t just buffing your base focus regen, but your total focus regen, including all the boosts from your haste.

The part of this that’s going to get more attention is auto-shots firing on the move. This is the section where other classes are going to scream that this is OP and broken and nerf hunters. But here’s the thing: we can already do this! If a hunter is skilled at movement-management, we are still able to get all our auto-shots off on the move by stutter stepping. This ability simply provides an easy way to do it, that doesn’t require skill, but lowers our dps as a result, since we won’t be in aspect of the hawk anymore.

Other Base Hunter Ability Changes

It looks as though the base BM abilities (trainable by all specs) Eagle Eye and Eyes of the Beast have been removed from the game. I have to say I’ll miss Eyes of the Beast, even though it was mostly only useful for pet tanking stuff, and then rarely, it was fun to play around with while waiting for raids to gather. It was like a toy.

Over in the SV tree it looks like Mongoose bite is gone, and good riddance I say. Serpent Sting is apparently now considered a SV base spell, rather than a MM one. No biggie there. Disengage not showing up on spell list at the moment (or I’m missing it) but I’m sure it’s there. We still have talents that affect it, and a blizz comment a while back that it’ll have no focus cost, as I recall. Freezing arrow gone of course, replaced by our trap launcher (which has a longer cooldown than freezing arrow, of course). Misdirection still there and working as normal, despite recent blue posts that it was going to change. My money says that it will still be changing.

Focus Cost and Cooldowns

One of the big changes is of course our movement from mana to focus. This means all our shots will cost focus now; however, since they have a real resource mechanic, that also means some of those shots will have their cooldowns removed. Here’s the way it currently looks with our shots:

  • Cobra Shot: 0 focus  -  1.5 sec cast – no cooldown – generates 9 focus
  • Steady Shot: 0 focus  -  1.5 sec cast – no cooldown – generates 9 focus
  • Arcane Shot: 50 focus – no cooldown
  • Multi-Shot: 60 focus – no cooldown – now instant shot
  • Aimed Shot: 50 focus – no cooldown – now 2.5 sec cast
  • Chimera Shot: 50 focus – 10 sec cooldown
  • Silencing Shot: 0 focus – 20 sec cooldown
  • Explosive Shot: 50 focus – 6 sec cooldown
  • Kill Shot: 20 focus – 6 sec cooldown
  • Distracting Shot: 0 focus – 8 sec cooldown
  • Concussive Shot: 35 focus – no cooldown
  • Tranq Shot: 35 focus – no cooldown
  • Hunter’s Mark: no focus – no cooldown
  • Venoms: 30 focus – no cooldown
  • Serpent Sting: info not currently available
  • Aspects: 0 focus – 1 sec cooldown
  • Traps: 0 focus – 30 sec cooldown
  • Mend Pet: 25 focus – channeled!?!?
  • Kill Command: 50 focus – no cooldown
  • Misdirection: 15 focus – 30 sec cooldown
  • Deterrence: 0 focus – 2 min cooldown
  • Feign Death: 0 focus – 30 sec cooldown

So most of this is going as I predicted back when we first heard about focus. Chimera and Explosive are keeping their cooldowns, but our standard shots have them going away — including arcane shot and multi-shot with no cooldown. It’s particularly fascinating to see that multi-shot is now an instant cast!

Silencing Shot looks like it’ll still be macrod in for most of our pve content, and Kill Command is crazy expensive for a pet damaging attack. I need to look more closely at it, but it’s beginning to smell like something that only BM will want to use, with their hard-hitting pets and talents that combo with the ability.

Kill Shot is also delightfully cheap at 20 focus and only a 6 second cooldown! That should substantially increase our back-weighted dps in boss fights, where we’ll really spike there at the end. Free traps are pleasant to behold, since currently they’re pretty spendy and if you use a lot you can actually go oom. Deterrence and FD both also happily have no focus cost, and we can hope that disengage will not either, as we’ve heard.

I am a bit disappointed to see the focus cost on Tranq Shot. That means that if we’re in a fight where we need to tranq enrages, we’re going to have to keep a 35 focus buffer at all times, which blows. I have a hunch they did it this way — focus cost and no cooldown — to make it an interesting choice in pvp. Just hurts in pve on enrage fights though. Maybe we’ll make the rogue take care of them from now on.

There are three things that I think are errors in the beta build. The first is Serpent Sting, which obviously is an error since it’s still listing a mana cost. The second is Mend Pet — I desperately hope they didn’t go back to making that channeled! Hopefully it’s still a HoT like it is today. Thirdly is the absence of Disengage, which I have to assume is in there and just got left out of MMO-C’s reporting.

Beast Mastery Talent Stuff

  • Beastial Discipline: Increases the Focus regeneration of your pets by [6%/12%/18%/24%/30%] (nerf from 50%/100%)
  • One With Nature: Increases the attack power bonus of your Aspect of the Hawk by [5%/10%/15%/20%/25%], and increases the amount of focus restored by your Aspect of the Fox by [2%/4%/6%/8%/10%].
  • Improved Kill Command: Reduces the focus cost of your Kill Command by [5/10] focus.
  • Fervor: Instantly restores 50 Focus to you and your pet.
  • Frenzy: Your pet gains [1%/2%/3%/4%/5%] attack speed after attacking with a special ability, lasting for [15 seconds]  (nerf from 30% attack speed bonus after a crit)
  • Animal Handler: Increases the critical strike chance of your Kill Command by [5%/10%], and increases the duration of your Master’s Call effect by [3/6] sec. (change from 10% ap boost and Master’s Call duration increase)
  • Focus Fire: When you use Kill Command, you consume your pet’s Frenzy stacks increasing your attack speed by [3%/6%] for each stack of Frenzy consumed. Lasts for 12 sec. (old focused fire was a 2% damage increase to you and pet, plus 20% crit bonus to pet special while kill command active)
  • Invigoration: When your pet scores a critical hit with a special ability, you instantly regenerate [3/6] focus. (instead of mana regen)
  • Aspect of the Monkey: Whenever you[ are/] critically hit by a melee attack, the cooldown of your Disengage is instantly reduced by [2/4] sec.
    Whenever you are cr[itically h/]it by a ranged attack, the cooldown of your Deterrence is instantly reduced by [4/8] sec.
  • Envenomation: Reduces the focus cost of your Scorpid, Widow and Viper Venom abilities by [10/20].
  • Beast Within: While your pet is under the effects of Bestial Wrath, you also go into a rage causing 10% additional damage and reducing the focus cost of all shots and abilities by 50% for 10 sec. (focus reduction instead of mana reduction (which is much better, btw))
  • Rhumba: When you cast two Steady Shot or Cobra Shot attacks in a row, your next Steady Shot or Cobra Shot will summon 3 Rattlesnakes onto the enemy target. If the enemy target attacks a friend or foe, a Rattlesnake will instantly strike the enemy dealing damage equal to [5%/10%/15%] of your Steady Shot or Cobra Shot damage.
  • Kindred Spirits: Increases you and your pets maximum focus by [5/10]. (old version (5 ranks) increased pet damage by 20% and your movement by 10%)

Ooookay, there are a lot of changes in the BM tree, as we can see! I am now, however, officially falling asleep and this is going to be a crazy long post anyway, so I shall get into talent change analysis another day.

Marksman Talent Stuff

  • Efficiency: Reduces the focus cost of your Arcane Shot, Explosive Shot and Chimera Shot by [2/4/6/8/10]. (old version reduced mana cost of all shots by 3-15%)
  • Rapid Killing: After killing an opponent that yields experience or honor, your next Aimed Shot, Steady Shot or Cobra Shot causes [10%/20%] additional damage. Lasts 20 sec. (nerfed to no longer reduce Rapid Fire cooldown)
  • Aimed Shot: An aimed shot that increases ranged damage by 5.
    50 Focus, 5-35 yd range, 2.5 sec cast (old version instant cast, did less damage, and applied the 50% healing reduction debuff – we’re seeing the return of the vanilla Aimed Shot (which was 3 sec cast and hit like a truck))
  • Go for the Throat: Your ranged auto-shot critical hits cause your pet to generate 3 Focus. (nerfed from 25/50 focus regen)
  • Barrage: Increases the damage done by your Multi-Shot, Aimed Shot, and Volley spells by [5%/10%/15%]. (buffed from 4/8/12%)
  • Careful Aim: Increases the critical strike chance of your Aimed Shot by [20%/40%/60%] on targets at or above 90% health. (old version converted your int to AP. We no longer will have int on gear.)
  • Sic ‘Em: When you critically hit with your Arcane Shot, Aimed Shot or Explosive Shot the focus cost of your Pet’s next 2 basic attacks are reduced by [100%/50%] for 12 sec.
  • Improved Steady Shot: When you steady shot twice in a row, your ranged haste will be increased by [5%/10%/15%] for 8 sec. (buffed from a crappy talent to awesomesauce)
  • Bombardment: Increases the critical strike chance of your Volley by [15%/30%], and when you critically hit with your Multi-Shot your next Multi-Shot’s focus cost will be reduced by [25%/50%]. (replaces Improved Barrage, which has been removed)
  • Wild Quiver: Increases the damage done by your Wild Quiver attack by [10%/20%/30%].
    Concussive Barrage (changed – wild quiver is now a mastery bonus, and the talent boosts that bonus. Old version gave you the wild quiver proc (12% chance on autoshot to proc a 80% auto-shot nature damage shot))
  • Resistance is Futile: When your marked target attempts to run, flee or move, you have a [10%/20%/30%] chance to cause your next Steady Shot or Cobra Shot within 8 sec to critically hit on them.
  • Master Marksman: You have a [20%/40%/60%] chance when you Steady Shot to gain the Master Marksman effect lasting 30 sec. After reaching 5 stacks, your next Aimed Shot’s cast time and focus cost is reduced by 100% for 10 sec. (changed from 5% crit boost and mana reduction of certain shots)
  • Rapid Recuperation: You gain [6/12] focus every 3 sec while under the effect of Rapid Fire, and you gain [25/50] focus instantly when you gain Rapid Killing. (changed from mana regen, new version looks about equivalent)
  • Chimera Shot: You deal 125% weapon damage, refreshing your Serpent Sting and triggering an effect depending on the venom on the target:
    Viper Venom – Instantly burns 5% of the targets total mana.
    Scorpid Venom – Attempts to Disarm the target for 10 sec sec. This effect cannot occur more than once per 1 minute.
    Widow Venom – Instantly heals you for 15% of your total health.
    50 Focus, 5-35 yd range, Instant, 10 sec cooldown (changed for new venoms, and serpent sting damage bonus aspect removed).

Survival Talent Stuff

  • Improved Serpent Sting: Your Serpent Sting also does instant damage equal to [15%/30%] of its total periodic effect.
  • Lock and Load: You have a [33%/66%/100%] chance when you trap a target with Freezing Trap, Freezing Arrow or Frost Trap to cause your next 2 Arcane Shot or Explosive Shot abilities to cost no focus and trigger no cooldown. (no longer procs off black arrow ticks by default – T.N.T. talent (below) now does that)
  • Toxicology: Increases the periodic critical damage of your Serpent Sting and Black Arrow by 50%.
  • T.N.T.: When you deal periodic damage with your Immolation Trap, Explosive Trap or Black Arrow you have a [4%/8%/12%] chance to trigger Lock and Load. (changed from a 6% damage increase to explosive shot. Note the L&L proc chance is double the old lock & load chance)
  • Resourcefulness: Reduces the cooldown of all traps and Black Arrow by [2/4/6] sec. (removed the mana reduction to traps, melee, and black arrow)
  • Expose Weakness: After you shoot [5/4/3] consecutive Steady Shot or Cobra Shots in a row on a target, you expose a weakness in the target. The Expose Weakness effect is unique to the different creature or class that the enemy is. Lasts for 20 sec. (changed from ranged crits increase AP by 25% of agility)
  • Hunting Party: Increases your total Agility by an additional [2%/4%], and your Steady Shot and Cobra Shot have a [50%/100%] chance to trigger Replenishment when they deal damage.
    Replenishment – Grants up to 10 party or raid members mana regeneration equal to 1% of the maximum mana per 5 sec. Lasts for 15 sec. (changed to only 2 ranks instead of 3 ranks at 1/2/3% agility increase & 33% chance/rank of arcane/explosive/steady crits procing replenishment)
  • Thrill of the Hunt: When you critically hit with Arcane Shot, Explosive Shot or Black Arrow you instantly regain [10%/20%/40%] of the focus cost of the shot. (changed mana regen to focus regen)

There we go. More later when I am more conscious. In the mean time, what do you guys think? What rocks? What sucks? What crazy talent combos do you see that my sleep-deprived brain is missing?

Note that with mastery it’s very easy for blizzard to tweak the overall damage of each tree by any amount, so don’t worry about whether one tree is dps balanced against another — that’s not an issue, since each tree will get a different %damage modifier through their mastery.

  • Chimera Shot: 50 focus – 10 sec cooldown
  • Silencing Shot: 0 focus – 20 sec cooldown
  • Explosive Shot: 50 focus – 6 sec cooldown
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  1. Dharion says:

    OK…MAYBE camouflage won’t completely suck. On the other hand, I can’t say as I’m in love with a LOT of the changes being made to hunters. Most especially my beloved Survival. I had hoped that the developers would look at what the name means and actually make the Survival hunter more of a well, survivalist.

    sur·viv·al [ser-vahy-vuhl]
    –noun
    1.
    the act or fact of surviving, esp. under adverse or unusual circumstances.
    2.
    a person or thing that survives or endures, esp. an ancient custom, observance, belief, or the like.
    3.
    Anthropology . (no longer in technical use) the persistence of a cultural trait, practice, or the like long after it has lost its original meaning or usefulness.
    –adjective
    4.
    of, pertaining to, or for use in surviving, esp. under adverse or unusual circumstances: survival techniques.

    With that in mind, I came up with a fitting talent for Survival hunters, and reworked a couple of other abilities from both the Hunter and Rogue classes. (Precision and Improved Mongoose Bite were proposed but never made it into the game)

    Terrain mastery- using his expert knowledge of terrains, the hunter allows all members of a raid or group within 30 feet to avoid any slowing effects. (5 minute cooldown)

    Close Quarters Combat (see definition #1-) Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Melee Weapons by 1/2/3/4/5%.

    Savage Combat-Increases your and your pet’s total attack power by 2/4% and all physical damage caused to enemies is increased by 1/2%.

    Precision- Increases chance to hit with melee weapons by 1/2/3/4/5%

    Improved Mongoose Bite- increases Damage of your Mongoose Bite attacks by 2/4/6/8/10%

    There you have it, ways to make the Survival hunter fit the name better, as opposed ot shooting exploding arrows.

  2. Ilsea says:

    Regarding Mend Pet – It looks like Improved Mend Pet is trainable at lvl 60

    “Reduces the mana cost of your Mend Pet spell and gives the Mend Pet spell a chance of cleansing 1 Curse, Disease, Magic or Poison effect from the pet each tick.
    100 yd range, Instant”

  3. L. Thome says:

    Let me know if I’m not a total ignorant on my question =D

    For our mana regen, we now have the Aspect Of The Viper, ok? Regen a % of our mana, etc etc, BUT, reducing ou total damage to 50%.

    Aspect Of The Fox: we do have a regen of our focus, auto-shot on the move. But there’s a reduction on our damage? Of course, we won’t have the plus of Aspect of The Dragonhawk… but ther won’t be damage reduction for focus regen? lol

    Well… it’s just a doubt of mine…

  4. Venombane says:

    I think you forgot to mention that the Frenzy BM talent will stack 5 times or at least it does on MMO-champion. It is mentioned in Focus Fire as well that it does for the increase in hunter attack speed. Still a nerf and takes some more time to reach it’s full effect but I thought I’d point it out.

  5. dd says:

    looks like hunters are finally getting a self heal in the mode of widow venom.

  6. Ibet. Tortheldrin says:

    On sic em in the mm tree did they mean chimera shot instead of explosive? If not then wth is wrong with blizz???

  7. Ibet. Tortheldrin says:

    Dharion we don’t want hunters to be more melee so I don’t c ur point with all the melee talents

  8. Chuckles says:

    Don’t count on Disengage still being around. Aspect of the Fox lets us gun on the run, thus removing a good chunk of the reason we had Disengage. Keeping distance in PvP will be a bit harder, but we’ll be able to fire back more as we kite.

  9. Bier says:

    I could easily be missing something but it appears blizzard is going back to the philosophy of make each tree specific for a specific portion of the game with BM possibly going back up in terms of being the solo tree (maybe raid also), MM staying instance/raid specific, and SV being PvP.

    I could easily see SV being one of the must-haves for arena teams with all of the CC and considering blizzard has stated health pools will be so much larger that the playstyle of burning an opponent almost instantly is going to be gone.

    I’m very curious to hear from anyone who has been playing alpha, or getting into beta, how BM now stacks up as it looks like they’ve been handed quite a few pieces of awesome in their talent tree.

  10. Kasila says:

    Having raided as MM through most of WoTLK and BC I’m really really hoping that BM will come into its own as a very viable high dps raiding spec come Cata. All the changes to the tree and the interactions between the skills are just exciting.

    Though it seems like BM will focus more on stacking/proccing such that their the increased haste from their pet’s consumed frenzy and the inherent haste in the tree makes them hit for more while MM will go the route of planning shots out until Master Marksman proc’s then spamming a ton of hard hitting Aimed Shots?

    This is exciting!

  11. Phillamber says:

    I am somewhat bothered by the massive nerf to Go For The Throat. It isn’t just that it is a reduction from 25/50 focus to 3 focus regained, but it only gets triggered by auto shot critical hits instead of all critical hits. When you add to that the fact that our critical hit percentages are being nerfed as well, it becomes a situation where you have to wonder why even have the talent.

    I guess Blizzard was worried we were going to be jealous of our pets’ focus regeneration.

  12. clra2 says:

    I am excited for BM. I can’t wait to try BM out. Rhumba is especially awesome. Also I really like the venom idea. It also looks like serpent sting will need to be refreshed less often for all specs (assuming SV will also use cobra shot over steady shot).

    It is interesting that aspect of the monkey is so far down the BM tree since it affects SV cooldowns.

  13. Hrist says:

    Multi-Shot as in instant should not have been a surprise. Blizzard have said they want to get ride of “on next swing” attacks for a while now and, while not TECHNICALLY a “swing” it falls into that category.

    Also, having to reserve focus to use Tranq Shot…this falls in line with the whole “making a choice” theme that Blizzard is shoving down our throats in Cataclysm. Besides, welcome to Rogues since the very beginning on mandatory interrupt fights.

  14. Lechbrava says:

    For the love of god, please don’t make Mend Pet channeled again.

  15. duskhawk says:

    CRAZY LIKE A FOX!

    I think I startled my husband when I squeed at the return of Vanilla Aimed Shot. Camouflage + Vanilla Aimed Shot (+ Readiness + Fiegn + Camouflage + Aimed? – oh, God, it’s the Subtlety hunter combo I’ve always dreamed of!)? I can snipe people on my Tauren! SQUEE!

  16. Corwyn says:

    Camouflage: Sure, 15% bonus damage is nice, and if it turns out to be worth the 45 focus (i.e. waiting the 9 seconds), I will macro it into the target/hunter’s mark macro. The question then becomes will I even notice it?

    It would also be nice to know what we are buying with our 30% speed reduction. Are we targetable? obscured? How easily will other players see us? How easily will Mobs / Bosses see us? Partial stealth against bosses for example seems worse than useless.

    Aimed Shot / Careful Aim: Four talent points for an opener, it had better hit like a TRAIN. Not sure they can make it worthwhile on a boss fight without one-shotting normal mobs.

  17. Valacia says:

    WOOT! So much awesome in this! I’m sure a lot of it will change before we get to 4.0, but it definitely looks like there will be a lot of thought going into our rotations. The idea of stacking steadies/cobras is pretty cool. It means that instead of seeing our active regen as a loss (ala aspect of the viper) it can lead to some nice burst damage, evening it out a bit.

    Aspect of the fox looks friggin primo!
    Aspect of the monkey made be giggle a bit like a giddy school girl.

    All in all, it seems that each spec has some really cool things, and picking one over the other is going to be difficult, methinks, assuming the damage output is relatively balanced.

  18. Ibet. Tortheldrin says:

    If u look at the bm talents closely there is one talent ( ( improved?)aspect of the monkey) that effects dissengages cooldown by 2/4 seconds so I assume that they will keep dissengage
    ( no focus cost just cooldown hopefully)

  19. Myrdreon says:

    Sorry, i think something’s wrong with my eyes. It says on chimera shot “widow venom- instantly heals 15% of TOTAL health”. That cant be right.. right? A 6 sec CD self-heal on 15% of total health?

    Add readiness and you could gain 30% total hp in 4,5 seconds. That sounds crazy.

  20. Myrdreon says:

    To add, it seems aimed shot is going back to its former glory of high damage cast time opener to be used with Camo. At least, seems so with the reverted cast time and the MM talent of +20/40/60% crit when the target is above 90% health.

  21. Where are the dual wielding pistols?!?! DAMN.

  22. Rad says:

    There’s a lot of crazy stuff going on in the MM tree. Too bad the careful aim talent probably won’t coincide with a master marksmen buff very often. I could see an opening rotation of mostly Aimed and steadies to try to get there though. While It looks like we are going to be destroyers of the universe below 20% I have a hard time imagining that won’t get nerfed. Fun to speculate but somewhat pointless at this stage as most likely it will be massively different by release, especially considering all the tuning that will be needed given our complete resource system overhaul. I am pretty underwhelmed by camo at this point, aspect of the Fox is cool but it will take away some of the higher end potential reachable only by those of us who are more skilled. I like a class that always has the potential for bettering yourself. Chimera really dropped off in importance with a lack of a secondary damage effect.

  23. Dharion says:

    Ibet. Tortheldrin. I hate to sound rude, but PLEASE learn to use complete words, thanks, you.

    Now, to address your point, my ideas are not meant to make hunters a melee class, but to make them more….SURVIVEable (yes, I know it’s spelled wrong). If you had read my entire post, you would see that I was aiming for a more survival like slant toward Survival hunters. After all, what does shooting explosive arrows and arrows that consume the target in shadow damage have to do with survivability?

  24. Frostfangs says:

    I would hold your excitement until you get a good handle on how slowly focus regenerates right now. I mean, it’s slower than molasses and has been for a long time.

  25. Arlys says:

    If Eyes of the Beast is removed, that means we get to stand there on the edges of jumps twiddling our fingers and waving buh-bye to our pets while the rest of the party pelts on and berates us for going afk. I’m just saying…

  26. clra2 says:

    @Dharion

    Hunters already have an incredible number of survival tools. Feign Death, Deterrence, Traps, Disengage, Wing Clip, (Scatter Shot and Scorpid Sting for SV hunters) and I think Camouflage will be considered a survival talent. All these abilities as well as mana/focus efficiency increase hunter survivability without augmenting melee abilities. Most of the talents that lower survival cooldowns and make them better are in the SV tree. Adding melee talents would not cause hunter survivability to go up. They would be ignored in almost any build, in both PvP and PvE, since the hunter tries to use everything it has to stay out of melee range. Terrain Mastery is a good idea though.

  27. Jindrax says:

    Love all of these free shots without any focus cost… I guess I’ll feel like playing survivalist, but as MM or BM…
    On MM: they’re trying to reduce the number of shots we’ll use?
    On SV: as I thought, SV would be the critfest with a rain of focus
    On BM: the frenzy thing reminds me of Slice and Dice… but the combo points are on our pet.

  28. Ibet. Tortheldrin says:

    Dharion,
    I don’t want to get in a fight over our favorite class
    I’m just saying that if you want to make sv hunters more “surviveable” they don’t need a greater dps output in melee but threat reducing high dps shots and stings to kill the target before it can reach you.
    I wasn’t typing in complete sentances earlier because It was really early in the morning, I
    was on my itouch and I’m a lazy person. :p
    Also, you said “…complete words, thanks, you.”

  29. Ibet. Tortheldrin says:

    Frost!
    Why do Efficiency and sic em effect the sv explosive shot? Did they mean chimera?
    Also i don’t see why we should ever go into hawk again because the 20% focus regen would likely increase our dps more by letting us get off more shots. Also what tier is the talents “one with nature” because I think that would be a great talents for mm hunters as well.
    On a side note what will happen to the armor pen gems in our armor )if we have been using the mm armor pen build and have 800 passive armor pen) when cataclysm come out?

  30. Boone says:

    Armor Pen is being changed to mastery on all gems. Now how mastery works I am still unclear, but have been trying to find information.

  31. Frostheim says:

    One With Nature is the very top of the tree, easy for anyone to get.

    Efficiency (top of the tree) and Sic’em (4th tier) are both attainable by other specs, thus affect shots by other specs as well.

    @Ibet: the “survivability” of survival ship sailed a long time ago. In the end it turned out to be a crummy niche, since when they had substantially better survivability, they had to balance that by making them do less dps. Everyone these days wants every spec to do good dps, so some of the trade-offs are no longer available. SV’s new niche is the magical damage spec — especially with Cobra Shot in the mix. They are almost more mage than hunter :)

  32. Alisaunder says:

    I have visions of owning warsong gulch firing my brain now ! Camo right after you kill someone, target running target, steady shot with resistance is futile and something I forget, gets plus 45% more chance to crit then another steady gets you ranged haste and I love the sound of Rhumba, I have no idea what I’m talking about but it sounds exciting! I didn’t expect that at all.

  33. Elder Gilanor says:

    survival is looking nice!

    [Explosive Shot: 50 focus – 6 sec cooldown] 3 of them would be 150% of your focus so getting them free will be beast. and if your focus is low you can use steadies or cobras between the tics to get your mana to full while doing insane damage.
    or use:
    -Thrill of the Hunt: When you critically hit with Arcane Shot, Explosive Shot or Black Arrow you instantly regain [10%/20%/40%] of the focus cost of the shot. (changed mana regen to focus regen)

    sounds like focus wont be too much of an issue for survival!

  34. Myrdreon says:

    Im really starting to like the MM hunter so far with all the goodies you can get.
    Take Fervor (+50 focus instantly), Rapid Recuperation (rapid fire gives additional focus regen), Rapid killing (grants 50 focus trough Rapid Recuperation) and Readiness. You can even add aspect of the fox along with one with nature talent.

    Also wondering what the new pet changes mean for hunters.. 1 man army?
    Drums for mini kings/motw, scrolls for agi/stam, pet (de)buff, hunter buffs (mark, trueshot), maybe a potion/food and you’re running more buffs than your average 5-man.
    Then you got disarm or heal (chimera) each bringing another debuff (healing or armor), silence, cc (trap launcher, scatter shot) and it all x2 trough readiness.
    Oh, and in case of goblin you also got 3 disengages (1 actual, 1 readiness, 1 racial).

    TL;DR hunters become rogues, both have stealth and you want to meet neither one with all its cooldowns ready.

    Now just waiting on confirmation (hopefully) that imp serpent sting indeed works with chimera…

  35. Elder Gilanor says:

    oh yea, and them removing [eyes of the beast] and [eagles eye] is STUPID! why are they removing abilities?? both of those have there place, weather its finding out how many horde are at a node in AB, getting your pet off a ledge safely or making a pull. maby this is the pet tank nurf?

  36. Myrdreon says:

    @ Elder,
    Explosive is more likely 40 (efficiency, 1st tier marks) and its 2 shots, making it 80. Cause of crits and thrill of the hunt 70 energy is more likely.

    Altough yes, it seems nice at first glance.. dont forget MM has a free shot (silence) and that BM gets focus trough their pet. So all in all that kinda evens out in the long run.

  37. chanceisop says:

    Depending on how LnL work with the new trap launcher I’m seeing all 3 specs going for TnT to get the LnL proc from an immolation trap from trap launcher…. (or maybe we will trap dance again and get it more often??????)

    I think BM’s new talent Rhumba is going to be nerfed once the expansion comes out, but I think it will be top dps for the first tier.

    MM looks like the top PvP spec, and looks like it will be the most diffacult but most rewarding to play to me (or it could be the easiest I need to see how the focus works to see if we are going to be weaving in aimed shots without the proc, using arcane shot? (imp arcane shot must be there for a reason….) and will we be using chimera shot on the cd. At the hardest I see a very complex MM rotation, at the easiest I see spam steady until you get a free proc and use chimera when SS gets low

    SV is kinda… meh nothing to major changed there I think we’ll be seeing a very similar rotation to what we have now.

    All in all I think (unless blizz doesent nerf BM and we see another BM dominace era like in BC) the Top DPS specs will cycle from bm to sv to mm like they did now, with sv being crap at the beginning and bm being crap up until the end, mm always staying a constant good spec.

    Anywho I’m a pve hunter im typing this just purely from a dps point of view, i like pvp but I havent switched my mind to pvp mode to look at all this yet

    15% healing woot! finally a way to get some health back

    Aspects….. I think your aspect is going to depend on your tree, SV I see using hawk, BM i see using monkey, MM is up in the air im not sure if the want more ap or if it needs more focus regen since it apear to be a little starved.

    P.S. – WTF IS UP WITH FURY WARRIOR 51 TALENTS

    P.S.S. – Sorry about typing errors

  38. Myrdreon says:

    Err, Chance.. that wont work. Its only on frost/freezing, the other is 26 pts deep meaning no 51pter like Chimera.

    Rhumba definitly wont get nerfed. It basicly increases cobra damage by 15% (well, its 2 shots in a row, so 7,5% each). Not that much different from MM’s 2 chained shots granting 15% haste which also means free damage.

    As for aspects, they’re talking about hawk and fox being the only aspects (cheetah/pack just there for utility in dungeons). So expect hawk all the time and fox for movement.

    P.S. For fury 51pter, thats just for those that want to dual 1handers. The big bonus just looks big, since 1 handers are agi based it gives them 0 AP making it a loss as well.

  39. Arthemystia says:

    The overriding sentiment my brain forms after reading all of that is “Er, ok.” I can’t really begin to make sense of so many new things until I see them in action. So it’s not indifference or apathy, just an inability to process everything at once. I’ll just assume hunters will remain awesome, and not really worry about it until I have to use these abilities myself.

  40. Ibet. Tortheldrin says:

    Haha frost =)
    also I’m glad one with nature is at the top but I’m dissapointed that sic em and efficiency don’t effect chimera, instead they do explosive which I find questionable.
    Bu who knows? It’s still beta.

  41. Ibet. Tortheldrin says:

    Also I believe for mm hunters aimed shots priority goes over chimera unless your serpent sting (and possibly venom?) need refreshing due to the physical damage of aimed shot.

  42. Grovin says:

    “RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!”

    Hunters get our very own Star Trek reference??

    Ghostcrawler is the MAN.

  43. Pikachu says:

    Can’t wait for cata!!

  44. Barker says:

    In part… it’s going to be weird not burning Kill Command at every opportunity or rather having Arcane Shot be more beneficial to use those resources for and in part it’s going to be interesting to have a Maelstrom Weapon-like stack consumption in Frenzy for BM Hunters. I’m wondering if proc’d Haste will increase our Focus Regen in the same manner as normal Haste making the “machine gun” build for BM seem even more viable, but then again I’m still waiting to hear the verdict on the GCD reduction to 1 second (might have missed it, actually).

    Still, the Mastery System gives me hope that all the specs will be normalized assuming a neutral environment such that there are simply pet unfriendly fights to screw over BM and throttle fight mechanics which push controlled bursts to the forefront of the meter. Ultimately, I’m just glad that no spec can be assumed to have numerical advantage of any kind until the content is released for retail sales.

  45. Armin says:

    Some things to add on Frost’s list:

    - When in aspect of Fox, steady and cobra shot will NOT give focus. Makes sense, else we’ll all be in fox all the time

    - Aimed shot indeed revert to the old way. However it is nerfeed seriously in its base form. Unless the +5 is incorrect, which is not unlikely. However with all the talents it may actually still be good (even if the 5 is correct). But that is a lot of talent points that have other competitors screeming for attention. Will have to min-max it though …
    So for now, I assume the +5 will be higher.

    - Camouflage … ah well, still don’t thing it is usefull. Cool, very cool, but not usefull. :-)

    - Wild Quiver increases damage, Seems expensive: just 10% extra damage of a low procing shot? Unless wild quiver will itself will be a big shot in terms of % of MM damage.

    - Go for the Throat, must be an error. 3 focus of autoshot crits only? Unless pet abilities nwo use less focus of course.

    - And as predicted, Blizzard did the math and learned that traps and PvP defensive spells should be no-focus.

  46. clra2 says:

    Camouflage is useful, just might not be in PvE. In PvP it’s going to be awesome. In PvE it’ll be a nice pre-pull ability to pop to increase the damage of your opening shot for all specs. If Feign Death will drop you out of combat during boss fights, then maybe it’ll be beneficial to FD -> Camo midfight ->Aimed/Arcane/Chimera/Explosive Shot every minute or so.

    As for Go for the Throat you need to check the talent attached to it, Sic ‘Em. That will even out the focus distribution for your pet.

  47. Kiaara says:

    I am still dreading the change from mana to focus. BLEH. But if they keep the fact that chimera shot causes 5% mana loss or 15% healing, based on the venom that’s on the target, that would be frickin’ awesome.

  48. Ibet. Tortheldrin says:

    @kiarra
    u would have to decide if you wanted extra damage through scorpid or reduced healing From widow which is obvious. But if you were to have scorpid up and needed the heal u could just stock up to 80ish focus and then use widow venom and follow up with a chimera
    also I noticed two things
    1) with trap launcher sv hunters could proc lock n load on will if specced for it
    2) since mm hunters will be using steady shot more by speccing 2 points to make chimera and multi shots daze the target it would raise the damage of your steady shot which does extra on dazzed targets. Of course you can’t daze bosses though so I don’t know. If it’s worth the points.

  49. Ibet. Tortheldrin says:

    Also reffering to the pig roast podcast I don’t think they added the “ability to shoot your range weapon at melee range” or duel wielding pistols (which meant something else?)
    sorry Frost! Haha

  50. Armin says:

    @clra2 , I was actually refering to PvP. I predict it is cool, but will not be used in arena at all, and in BG very limited. You are deadslow and cannot attack, and if you attack the effect is gone. The initial attack bonus is also low.

    For night elves with cats it is even less usefull, as in defensive so stationairy mode, they already have true stealth.

    In offensive mode, the slow walk (remember, no cheeta, no mounts, etc) is going to kill you. Most rogues also ride to the target, then unount and only stealth the last part in PvP.

    What does help in PvP, is the fox aspect. They nerfed hunters so bad in PvP that we all were very worried. That turned out to be true. All concerns were true, so they simply introduced this PvP-only aspect to unbreak it. Kudos to Blizzard here!

  51. Vence says:

    These changes are certainly interesting, and I’m looking forward to seeing how they work out in the beta. My major concern at the moment is that the changes seem (to me at least) to have the potential to alter the overall ‘feel’ of the hunter class. Less ‘stoic marksman, beast-kindred of the wilds’ and more ‘range-rogue’. In this sense I agree with Dharion’s opinion regarding survival talents and abilities

    That said, this is more a gut reaction on my part to the aesthetics of our new tool box, rather than their practical use, and I know that many players could care less about these lore-related considerations. As I said, it’ll be interesting to see them in action.

  52. Armin says:

    Oh and note, many, very many, of the values are placeholders. Just look at kill command. There are a lot of talents fo it, while at the moment it is listed at MMO as a ’5′ damage instant. Obviously this will be a huge amount more.

    Same with e.g. steady shot and aimed shot. Also the focus gen of GftT is so low it is ridiculous.

    So I’d not start min-maxing on the exact values and % of these talents, as they are more likley to change than stay as they are now. Still they show what Blizzard is thinking.

    For MM, they base a lot on steady shot and procs based on that. So it seems that the MM rotation or priority is going to be a lot more like SV or Druid dps now. This is a bit sad, as it kind of mandates the use of a tool like power aura’s to know when a certain proc is active. I never understood why Blizzard effectively mandates using add-ons, as it is impossible to watch in a 25 man between all the bufs if a certain proc is active.

    I still would have prefered mana, but I can cry all I want, that is a lost battle, so I’ll embrace focus :-)

  53. Frostheim says:

    Keep in mind the damage listed for abilities is likely the damage at the lowest level of the ability, when you first train it.

  54. Armin says:

    Also .. and then I’ll sop spamming … I don’t believe Viper Venom or Widow Venom will be effective on raid bosses so I’ll predict Blizzard will shoot itself in the foot and the only venom we’ll use is the sunder armor version. But that will be already extremely cool.

    Question will be if they stack. So what if we have 2 hunters in the 25 man raid? If not that mean they will have to agree on not using the same venom, and if my preduction is true, only one will have to use venom (optimally the MM as of CS usage) and the other can free up the focus for other shots.

    Now *that* I’ll like, as for the first time hunters will then have different rotations/priorities based on how many hunters there are in a raid …

  55. Xylakane says:

    Energy, I mean focus is looking less like a class nerf. Still, three useless new skills tho. Finally I can go back to the best spec (BM). Taking of a fun skill (EOB). Fox looks cool, still we should be able to auto shot on run automatically. Just need to let us use our gun/bows/xbows at melee range. Stings look more pvp oriented. RIP Dragonhawk ): All in all, still looking like ranged rogues :)

  56. highstrunghunter says:

    With the NDA lifted do you think you can get BRK back on the the hunting party podcast!!? It would be awesome to hear him talk about the class now that he can you know… actually talk about the class.
    Do it and I’ll send you TWO friendship bracelets!
    and I won’t make fun of your hairy wrists
    and I’ll call euripides a druid lover

  57. Neelyung says:

    I was a bit worried worried what they were going to do to hunters in Cataclysm, but all of this new information has settled almost all of my fears. I think the best part about all of it is that each spec looks fun and viable. I would guess that after the first raid tier, when things will still be a bit wacky in terms of balance, all three specs will be raid viable, as well as raid FUN. It’s going to be difficult figuring out which spec I want to PLAY, versus which one I’m FORCED into.

  58. Uncas says:

    I have been saving Frost Badges in order to jump from two to four pieces of T10. Now with the change from mana to focus, I have no idea if I should spend them when I can afford both pieces or save them for after Cataclysm. Any advice on this would be very much appreciated. I do not want to waste them.

    BTW, thanks for the article on the Ruby Sanctum equipment. You kept me from dropping 6k on Rock Steady Treads.

  59. Corwyn says:

    @Uncas, spend them now. Greens in Cata will probably be better than anything we have now. Get use out of them while you can. The will be badges of justice shortly.

  60. Autumn says:

    With the new information, I feel Blizzard has succeeded in mixing things up to the extent that it will be very difficult to prescribe a best way of DPSing. Enough of the base and mid-talents are also optional enough that we will indeed have loose points to play around with, which will probably have no effect on raid DPS.

    Since Aspect of the Fox (AotF) has no damage penalty, and provides a huge focus regen buff, it may be difficult to decide whether it is more advantageous to use AotH’s AP buff or the focus buff. I mean, having AotF on the whole time may allow one to use a different rotation than having AotH on. As the AP buff from AotH does not scale, AotF may become more advantageous than AotH at high levels of gear. This will, however, probably depend heavily on the focus regen contribution from gear.

    An interesting thing I noticed is that Serpent Sting can be talented to do 30% of its periodic damage instantly. This seems to fill in the gap that Chimera Shot refreshing Serpent Sting no longer causes Serpent Sting to do instant damage. Perhaps Chimera Shot still causes Serpent Sting to do instant damage on refresh in this case? Otherwise I find it very interesting that Serpent Sting will keep doing instant damage on manual refresh. If it doesn’t have a CD and uses little focus, spamming Serpent Sting may be more worthwhile than spamming steady shots..

    Damn, I wish I could test this stuff out for myself.

  61. Myrdreon says:

    @ Armin, you should take a closer look at aimed/camo synergy. Altough aimed does seem a bit weaker then past versions (also shorter cast time tough) there’s a huge bonus in the tree. There’s camo’s 15% bonus, Piercing Shots 30% bleed bonus, Barrage 15%, Marked for Death 5%, Tracking 5% and ofcourse the matery bonusus of armor pen and ranged damage. Thats some sick increases.. Yes, Piercing shots also counts cause that +60% crit chance if the target is above 90% health practically means a 100% crit on endgame gear. Then there’s Mortal Shots 30% and Marked For Death 10% crit bonus and you can understand they had to tone down the basic aimed shot.

    Also, with that +60% crit on targets above 90% hp along with the crit damage bonusus, i wouldnt be surprised if you’d prio Aimed over any other shot till the boss has 89% health.
    For when the additional crit chance is gone, there’s Master Marksman synergy (making it free and, most importantly, instant) trough steady shot, and MM will quite often use steady cause of imp steady’s 15% haste buff.

    The pet bonus does seem low on 3 focus, but as GC stated “[..]basic focus dumps (e.g. Claw), specials (e.g. web) [..] Specials never cost focus and basics have short cooldowns but meaningful damage.” So its only for the basic attack which has a CD anyway. Wont be surprised if that becomes more bm-only and that mm just skips it.

    @Autumn, that AotF is just at first glance. You’re getting either +20% regeneration (so the 6 becomes 7.2) or you’re getting +9 focus on each steady/cobra (which is now AotH-only). This likely means AotF is used on kiting mobs/pvp, where you cant find time/room for steady’s and to autoshot the boss while running circles arround it. Hawk will be for everything else – where you can stand still for those steady/cobra’s.

    Also, the focus generation goes both ways. On one hand, the increase in focus gain from haste might make Fox better in the long run: spamming shots over higher damage shots. On the other hand, that same increase might turn the increased gain from fox useless since you’ll always use steady/cobra for the bonus talents (take imp steady shot, master marksman) and instead always use hawk.
    In the end i think it’ll form a nice gear element for theory crafters or play style.. head for haste on gear and damage trough skills, or go agi/… on gear and focus trough skills.

  62. Kylaella says:

    I have to say that I was at first disappointed a year ago when I learned of the (ahem) cataclysmic changes to our class. But after checking out my beloved MM tree, I’m really excited. I can’t wait for all the complaining e-mails to Blizz. Get your shots in early before they nerf us!

  63. Ardor says:

    I was prepared to give Bliz the benefit of the doubt … but they might as well call it World of PvPCraft with these changes. They are pretty much ALL aimed at PvP.

    I don’t mind change to Focus, mana never made sense, I don’t mind reusing Azeroth, but I do not want to PvP and now the bulk of our skills, especially Marks and BM, are aimed (no pun intended) directly at PvP.

    They have lost all creative inertia and are heading towards a PvP epeen free for all.

    Hope beta plays out and they listen to feedback.

  64. Grimgold says:

    Lets be straight, Camo is shitty stealth. 3 second warm up, cost half your focus, opposing players can still see you while you move (even if they can’t target you directly), and even if you don’t attack anyone, it still drops after a minute and has to be recast.

    I assume that while moving you have no special protection from mobs agroing you (like true stealth provides), so it’s not even that useful for doing stealth runs and such.

  65. Myrdreon says:

    Why is that shitty Grim?
    In arena you can just pre-cast it and use its full potential.
    In BG’s its the same cause you see them comming from far enough – and you’re behind the melee anyway which will keep them busy more then long enough.
    Then there’s the untargettable component which, if it stays, means nobody can open on you even if they do see you. Thats always a huge bonus and guaranteed an aimed shot opening
    .
    In PvE its a nice 15% damage bonus on your first shot on just about every pull unless you’re steaming trough the content. Just imagine opening each fight on an aimed shot crit… from reading on forums on lvl80/wotlk gear aimed already crits on 35k. That means 1-shotting everything that isnt in tank gear. Ofcourse numbers get tweaked, but such a massive output does shows the intent of making it hit like a small freight train or at least a massive truck.

  66. Armin says:

    @Myrdreon, it is shitty as it is extremely situational. You are deadslow. You caputure a flag or zone in a team, so as you cannot keep up in camouflage, you cannot use it offensive. Defensive, as stated, ask night elves with cats in BG’s how usefull it is. They already have true stealth for years. Me being one of those :-) and a former PvP junkie, I can say from experience it is very nice but no game changer.

    And in arena you don’t seriously think that the enemy team is going to be overwelmed by the fuzzy (not stealth) hunter?

    In your previous post you explain that if all stars allign perfectly (and you actually managed to get positioned even yhough you were so slow), yes, you get one good aimed shot out. If you’re one on one that is nice, but in BG’s you are not one on one and arena’s are not won on the first shot, but by out-dpsing the spam-healing-healer. Also note, that after that one perfect-star-alligned shot, you are even with all talents also almost half out of focus already …

  67. Corwyn says:

    “Then there’s the untargettable component which, if it stays, means nobody can open on you even if they do see you.”

    …means they need to use AOE on you instead of a single target shot.

    “In PvE its a nice 15% damage bonus on your first shot on just about every pull unless you’re steaming trough the content. Just imagine opening each fight on an aimed shot crit… from reading on forums on lvl80/wotlk gear aimed already crits on 35k. That means 1-shotting everything that isnt in tank gear”

    Or elite. So when can you use it? Leveling? Sorry, no, it is an 85 level skill. Farming? who cares, for farming I want fast, camo plus auto does not look like high DPS given the startup time and focus recovery time. Packs of raid trash? meh. a good first shot on one. Bosses? One aimed shot from camo in a five minute fight; not a huge effect.

  68. Argent says:

    No I love Eyes of the Beast I’m really going to miss it

  69. Barker says:

    Hmm…. On the changes, there seems to be a loss of Aspect of the Beast which seems to hurt the potential of Bestial Wrath. However, I really haven’t seen much direct commentary to that regard where Aspect of the Monkey and Aspect of the Dragonhawk seems to be a very vocalized change along with the transition from Viper to Fox to go with the resource change. Still, I guess I should say that this is a rebalancing of the Aspects for Bestial Wrath (the increase to melee could’ve led to the macroing of Beast to Kill Command and Hawk to Arcane/Cobra Shots since they’re still of the GCD). It a re-simplification of the simpler rotation of the class after adding the potential for complexity with Kill Command leaving more room to manage the Frenzy.

    As for Aspect of the Fox… I’m seeing some speculation about Aspect of the Fox having the potential to just be… good in its own right to keep up. I kind of want to analyze that claim, but we don’t have a set of damages to use. But, we do know the base focus regeneration which hasn’t changed since the announcement of the resource change with the singular exception of AotF. What we don’t know is how the Haste is going to affect the focus regeneration so the question of how the gear is going to change which aspect is optimal will hinge directly on the point at which the Fox regeneration outpaces the Hawk with SS/CS regeneration. With the reset on gear optimization which occurs at the beginning of these expansions, I wouldn’t expect to see that point at least for a couple of patches.

    And Corwyn… it may be lackluster for PvE, but Camouflage has an effect which outlasts the time it takes to regain the focus it uses so it’s essentially a free 15% boost to a shot which requires no talent points. Huge effect or not, the fact that it is an effect means scoffing at it is and can only be suboptimal. But hey, there’s always the potential for 15% increase in damage to mirror the t10 2-piece bonus such that a Marksman can maintain it indefinitely on a Serpent Sting using Chimera Shot in some fights in which phase changes do not cause a wipe of the debuff by some means.

  70. Ibet. Tortheldrin says:

    YOu guys should remember that aoth could trump aotf at times because it can proc haste gains in percentages If specced into improved aspect of the hawk and that would give about a 12-18% gain in haste while still gettin your focus from steady or cobra!

  71. Barker says:

    Uhm… no more Improved Aspect of the Hawk. That got lumped in with One With Nature so it now provides a bonus to the AP gained from AotH instead of a Haste proc. Nonetheless, we have no basis to say what DPS gains we’ll get from having Aspect of the Hawk active at all so it’s an arbitrary gain which makes the same shots deal flatly more damage while using it. The real comparison is whether or not Aspect of the Fox allows us to use our primary shots and Arcane Shot more frequently which I’m expecting not to occur (as Blizzard will probably want us to keep a similar relationship with Fox as we had with Viper in that it’s our go to when we’re running around unable to utilize abilities so we might as well get resources back).

  72. Grimgold says:

    @Myrdreon: I call it shitty stealth because everything Camo does stealth does better. While stealthed you can’t be targeted, stealth doesn’t cost energy, you remain hidden while moving in stealth, stealth doesn’t have a warm up, and stealth doesn’t have to be recast every minute. The only thing camo has over stealth is the damage bonus, and master of subtelty is a talent that allows a 60% bonus to attacks after leaving stealth. It’s like stealth’s retarded little brother.

  73. Corwyn says:

    “it’s essentially a free 15% boost to a shot which requires no talent points”

    Right. 15% to ONE shot. My first shot. For a five minute boss fight with say 200 shots, that is 0.075% increase in DPS. This is a level 85 skill?

    There are many things which would be suboptimal to ignore, but I am not going to get excited about them. At best, it gets macro’ed in with Hunter’s Mark, and I forget I even have it. Forgive me for wanting a little more.

    It is my suspicion that rolling it infinitely on venoms will not make it through Beta, if it is even there now (anyone know?)

  74. gzr says:

    FWIW, BRK has a Cataclysm Baby Bear Video up.
    http://www.bigredkitty.net/

  75. Myrdreon says:

    :::IMPORTANT NOTICE:::::::IMPORTANT NOTICE::::

    Skip all talent related discussions here, talent points are being revamped back in 31pter trees.

    Cataclysm now also hits your talents it seems. For more info check mmo-champ or blue post.

  76. Skat says:

    MM will be true awesomesauce in PvP.. Atleast if they keep it like this. (even though they should seriously have given this to the survival tree)

    I can tell that we can heal ourselves for 22% hp every 10 secs, and we also buff ourselves to increase healing done to us by 10%. Does this stack?? in that case we get about 24% hp every 10 secs. ( if we manage to keep away from our target for chimera shots)

    Do you get how awesome this will be for pvp?? we will actually be able to duel without having to do everything in our power to stop enemies from damaging us at all. Combined with herbalism we will halfway be a selfsustaining class :) if the herbalism heal is kept??

  77. charmedone says:

    hi I’ve been playing my MM (arp) hunter on the ptr now I have 1 question
    All arp has been changed to crit and I’m kinda cunfused if its better to gem back to agility now or leave the crit since it is the replacement for arp which was best stat for me :s