I recently recieved this email, reprinted with permission. Note that the author currently raids on his mage, but used play a hunter.
… Recently a hunter joined the fold and she pushed good numbers, very good numbers. Top of the rank numbers in fact. It was great to have some competition.
But then I realised, she does NOT pay her dues. She Misdirects once per boss fight, only once and thats on the pull and rides the red line all the fight despite tanks asking dps to cool it a little. She doesn’t feign death. She completely outright refuses to dps adds properly, never landing a blow on saurfangs bloodbeasts and only landing a cursory attempt at dpsing portals on heroic Jarraxus, not even bothering with the portals. On putricide she refuses to move her pet off the boss to do that little extra dps to the oozes, it lowers her dps of course. She doesn’t stop dpsing when called on things like Deathwhispers shield, Yoggies opening phase adds. Our tactics involve on jarraxus for example everyone blowing cooldowns on the first portal, Bloodlust(heroism) for the second, cooldowns on the third. She refuses to save rapid fire, because in her words its not a dps cooldown.
As a former dues paying hunter I felt I at least owed it to hunters to try and set things straight, she refused to listen. I spoke to my officers about it but nothing has changed. This morning she essentially called me out, saying I know nothing about how hunters work after I explained to her the 104% crit cap. That that was all “bs and I know nothing about how hunters work in game”. This obviously upset and offended me. It’s true she pushes bigger numbers than I did, better gear, better raiding spec, and it’s true she moves better than I ever did, jumpshots better than I ever did….but she’s possibly the biggest huntard I have ever had the misfortunate of being aware of.
So my question behind this sad tale is, what do we do, as hunters, ex hunters, hunters on alts or just fans of WHU, what do we do when we see a hunter not paying their dues and they refuse to listen?
This is an easy trap to fall into in the pursuit of massive dps. While this is the most egregious example I’ve heard of, I have often seen dpsers do things that are good for their dps at the expense of what’s best for the raid.
It’s not so much that this person is a bad hunter, so much as she’s simply a bad raider. We’ll call her Ms. Egopuff.
It is baffling to me on so many levels to have a hunter refuse to dps the Blood Beasts (a role that we’re better suited for than any other class) or refusing to dps the portals on heroic Jaraxxus. These are the kind of things that can literally cause the raid to fail an encounter. Think about it for a moment — Ms. Egopuff is consciously deciding to pad the meters even if it means the raid will wipe as a result. Who wants that person on their team?
While I’ve no doubt that no WHU member would ever do these things, the allure of the meters can and does push people into sacrificing the good of the team to boost their personal dps. This is exactly why some people hate damage meters so much. Despite all the good they do in letting us analyze and improve our performance, people sometimes succumb to the temptation to try to top the meter above all else. They get overly competitive about it and lose sight of the real objective: killing the boss. Very seldom does someone manage to do every selfish thing on the list like Ms. Egopuff, but it’s not uncommon to see a dps raider get a little too interested in the meters. Some examples:
- People who refuse to MD during the fight, because it costs them a global cooldown. Keep in mind that this isn’t just for you, it’s for your entire team. I usually watch Omen not just for myself, but to see if anyone is having threat problems. With FD I’m usually fine, but when I see the mage creeping up on the tank, I’ll fire off another MD to help him out. Because it’s a team effort, after all. The notion of needing a steady shot so desperately you’re willing to hang another teammember out to dry is pure selfishness and is ridiculous.
- People who refuse to FD during the fight. This is really nothing but sheer stupid. In fact, I generally recommend FDing early — FD can be resisted after all, and you don’t want to wait until you’re desperate to discover it’s failed — because then your only option is to stop (or radically slow) dps. And believe me, that is miserable.
- People who won’t stop when stop dps is called. It’s staggering to me how hard this is for some people.
- People who don’t switch targets when they should. Target switching is the key to many, many boss fights, and one of the signs of a skilled raider is how quickly they can snap over to the new target. In fact, sneakily refusing to switch dps targets, or switch quickly enough, is one of the most common selfish moves I see made.
And I’m sure there are more things as well. Basically consider any special role on any boss fight and I’m sure someone has not done it so they could boost their dps. It’s so ironic, because all of these things are the hallmarks of a good raider, and the people trying so hard to top the meters are actively being bad raiders to do it. It’s just not worth it guys.
But as for what to do about Ms. Egopuff? Unfortunately there’s not much you can do. This is an issue of a raider disobeying the raid leader instructions and/or not doing her job or working for the good of the team, and as such the raid leader or officers need to deal with it. My hunch is that Ms. Egopuff is doing dps that is far and away better than most of the raid, which is the reason the officers are reluctant to give her a stern talking to (which they should). They figure that what she lacks in willingness to dps where it matters she makes up for in her large overall output.
I know that you’ve already talked to them once, so I will write them a message here that you can copy and send to them for me. You probably want to change names to actual name:
Dear Raid Officers,
Greetings! My name is Frostheim and I write about hunters (and sometimes raid leadership in general) for WarcraftHuntersUnion.com and WoW.com. Recently NAME wrote to me with some concerns about Ms. Egopuff, and he was at a loss for how to address his concerns. He felt that Ms. Egopuff does excellent dps, however she frequently ignores the crucial mechanics of fights in an effort to inflate her personal dps on the meters. Specific examples include:
- Refusing to FD during fights, and refusing to Misdirect after the pull. Both of these costs a hunter a global cooldown, but are decidedly good for the team.
- She does not dps the Blood Beasts on Saurfang (a vital role that certainly results in lower personal dps).
- She doesn’t dps the portals on Heroic Jaraxxus.
- She doesn’t stop dps when called for on things like Lady Deathwhisper’s shield, Yogg-Saron’s opening phase adds, etc.
- She refuses to save Rapid Fire for burst on Jaraxxus portals, because in her words it’s not a dps cooldown (in fact, it is the single best dps cooldown hunters have).
Most of these can easily be verified by looking at raid parses or recount at the end of a boss fight. Someone who generally tops the dps meters should also be among the top damage done to adds. It sounds to me like Ms. Egopuff is focusing on her meters too much and is willing to let the team down in an attempt to inflate her personal numbers. Switching targets will generally always lower a hunter’s dps, and I believe Ms. Egopuff knows this and and is more concerned for her position on the meters than in the goal of the team — to kill bosses.
Moreover it sounds like if every dpser performed as she did, your raid would likely fail to lack of dps on your adds. This is particularly dangerous since if Ms. Egopuff is topping the meters, the competitive nature of dpsers is likely to see them emulating her behavior to boost their own dps. She is setting a very poor and dangerous example.
I too run a raid team, and I have to say that nothing drives me batty like raiders who don’t follow direction. I’m a big believer that raiding is a team sport, and you gotta do what’s best for the team. So I urge you to check your raid parses and have a talk with Ms. Egopuff with actual numbers to point out to her. If it was me, I’d keep her on a short leash for a while, verifying that she was actually doing her job after each boss fight. If she’s at all skilled, she should be able to swap targets without missing a beat, and greatly increase her contribution to the team, even if her personal numbers drop a bit.
Thank you for your time, and I do apologize for intruding in your business.
Good Hunting!
-Frostheim
One of the things I mention here bears emphasis, I think. The single best way to evaluate your own performance in a raid: if every dpser performed identically to you (total damage done, target switching, avoiding void zones, etc) how would the raid do? Would you succeed? Would you beat the enrage timer? Would you put more or less strain on the healers? Would everything go down in a timely fashion?
Personally, I think your goal should always be to say the raid would in fact do better if they were all clones of you.
(39 votes, average: 4.77 out of 5)
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Excellent post, and one that fits with the recent theme of “How to be the best raider that you can be” that seems to be popping up here and on many current blogs and WoW-sites.
EVERY DPS can benefit from taking time out and analyzing their behavior and performance (in my raid group the Egopuffer is our Warlock, who refuses to do anything that helps the raid but compromises his DPS. He usually winds up dead, and even that isnt enough to make him wake-up.)
Another fellow raider posted this link on our website…its good for a laugh and a wry nod.
http://hordedefenseleague.org/blog/?p=26
Note: it is so-so on the Being Safe For Work element.
Good post. My problem is that I get “flustered” and lose situational awareness and then I often do something “huntarded” …but I’m working on that….and honestly don’t give a rat’s ass about recount as long as get the job done that was assigned to me. Our GM’s (who is also usually the raid leader) approach to folks like Egopuff is to turf them from the guild if they consistently do things like were described above.
He has lost of patience with folks who try hard and just “screw up” but almost zero tolerance for “prima donnas”
Teamwork and utility 1st, DPS 2nd.
I agree 100%. That said, if the tank is miles ahead on aggro (on everyone, not just the hunter), it’s perfectly acceptable to save MD for a clutch situation. Not switching targets is inexcusable, however. You can tell how bad a hunter is by their relative percent of damage done (in recount) on less “appealing” targets (un-debuffed adds with low HP- like bone spikes).
You are so getting this guy gkicked!
The only time I do MsEgoPuff things are when I, as raid leader, determine that we need a little extra DPS someplace be it the boss or the adds. Sometimes it’s just easier to do it yourself tha call in vent, hope ther was no lag, etc.
You’ll find that by doing the right thing your dps will stay were it is supposed to be because the boss will die faster and cleaner
Tha being said I rarely MD except at the beginning of a fight ubless there is an aggro dump. With the new MD + 4 hunters + a ToT our tanks don’t have a whole lot of aggro issues.
Dues Payer
I MD as much as possible, no matter how much aggro the tank has. With the amount of proc stuff that is flying around lately (I myself have the t10 2 piece, Zod’s proc, my trinkets and the Ashen Ring) that aggro can be eaten in a hell of a hurry. Add to that stuff like the dps increase you get from Blood Queen (doubles it) or the orb boost from the twins in ToGC and any aggro cushion that a tank has is in reality a ghost. Like frost, FD early and before you come close to the red line, cause if by some chance it all procs at once, that 15% cushion you thought the tank had on you suddenly becomes one big scary thing coming straight at ya and one pissed tank/RL screaming at you. (in my guild, I don’t know which is scarier, the boss or “The Voice”)
I like DPS meters for personal glory ofc but it also shows when people arent doing their job. Like if RL says all range on Onyxia and then in P2 you notice a lot of range doing 11k DPS… something is wrong.
Or when some other DPS lover calls the entire raid a noob because he has 6/7k dps on beasts but then you notice he has a a VERY low dmg in the fight… because he died on the first fire of Gormok.
That aside Ms.EgoPuff fail to realize some of the fights like Saurfang its all about the adds, control the adds and anyone can kill the boss.
Offensive Intrusion and Enjoyment:
I’ll do them in order. First of all, although the letter is well written and has valid points, the person who orginally brought this issue to you needs to be able to address the problem to his officers in this fashion instead of having a “known name” speak on his behalf. If i were a GM or Officer I would take offense to an outsider of the guild trying to preach on how I was running it (wether it be right or wrong, bosses go down, success). On the other hand, I enjoyed reading through the fails that are imbedded into people for the desire of #1 on 1 on the many charts and the one they, for some reason, hold dearest. Although I will admit, I enjoying seeing myself above the other hunter in my 25m who has DV(reg) and Deathbringers, where as i don’t, and he has done half the % read on the chart to adds that were suppose to be downed by ranged. It is a testement to how far I have come with Skill>Gear, Not to toot my own horn
Dues Payer
“if every dpser performed identically to you (total damage done, target switching, avoiding void zones, etc) how would the raid do? Would you succeed?”
good to see this line. this has been a personal mantra of mine for a while. it lets me know if im holding my own and doing my job.
now that ive been tanking for a while, when i group with a hunter, i wish more would be like this. oh for a MM that would silence the caster so it runs to me, or freeze trap occasionally, or volley md or whatever.
As “The Voice” I’m much scarier.
I’m with Eurip on this one rather have it off cooldown for a “clutch” situation. That doesn’t mean I don’t use it liberally. Just not that much in your usual tank and spank fight ala Fester.
A well timed MD coming out of Bone Storm on Fester and on adds in Deathwhisper actually increases your DPS as you can make sure they’re headed the right place and continue going all out..
Let’s keep in mind though, if you are not doing your max damage on your assigned target you are also not doing your job.
If I or another don’t need a MD I’m not blowing a GCD on one.
And seriously as my guildies tell me, after reading my comment from above, “Hallo, stop posting from your BlackBerry.’
Crap, meant Bone Storm on Marrowgar.
/facepalm
I pug a lot, and for many pug raid leaders, the meters are the measure of who will get kicked or who will be invited next time. There just isn’t as much incentive to parse logs when its quite probable that you may never raid with that person again.
So in pugs you get rewarded for that kind of bad dps behavior. A memorable example was an OS 10 where I was assigned, as one of two ranged dps, to stay on Ony all the time. After a failed attempted I was kicked for low dps. (yah i did suck a bit I hadn’t played my hunter in months and I was beastmaster trying to chase Ony around, allright?). The other ranged dps (the raid leader) was quite a bit higher and he bragged about this to me as he kicked me. Looking over the logs later I found that 60% of his damage was on whelps
So yah if I had aoe’d the whelps as well instead of doing what I had been told to do I would have done great overall dps and would have stayed in the raid and possible gotten a nice gun.
I promised myself if I pugged it again I would aoe whelps no matter what assignment I was given.
Hello ! it’s me again
i got some change on my hunter, please experts take a look 
cheers!
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Chamber+of+Aspects&cn=Ryba
Gj ultra, highjack a good post with a ‘halp me, here r amrory’ post.
Great post btw, but for me the answer is simple, you refuse to play your class correctly then /bai. Kick em and let some other guild who doesnt care about it take em.
Excellent. Being that my guild currently has 6 hunters I often wonder about things like this. I have to admit that I have on occasion broken one or two of these when I just felt lazy or felt like the fight itself was a cakewalk (or maybe I secretly wanted 360 pain spike and thought I was so awesome that if I didn’t move off Jaxx it would make a difference? lol)
Often times I hear in raids “Hunters! you’re STILL not *xyz*!” and I will get a bit offended for a moment because I KNOW that I am dpsing the spikes the moment they come up because I have my /tar bone spike macro right there on my “raid macros” bar and I hit it as soon as the spikes come down (or whatever other fight specific thing like this there is). Then I remember that there are 5 or 6 hunters in this 25 man… Then I feel better knowing that I am not a part of the problem.
Gah it really urks me when people intentionally and knowingly do things like this..
Even more so that she outright refused to even consider what you said.
Best of luck with your problem Magey :/
THANK YOU! I follow the strats, dps the adds, fd, md, stop dps, watch my aggro, whatever is needed and still have a little smile when im 3rd on the dps chart (after two mages XD) Now i know what that smile is for
Great post! When meters seem to be the measure we’re going to judge by, you get a lot of people with Ms. Egopuff’s perspective. It certainly seems to be all I hear these days. Personally, I love a run where some one doesn’t feel compelled to broadcast Recount in the raid all of the time. Some how, many players seemed to have forgotten that addons like Recount and Skada, along with sites like worldoflogs are tools for analysis so that you can determine how to get better, not tools to boast, “mine’s bigger than yours”.
Contributor
Yikes! She’s lucky she’s not in our guild. Off the raid team is a given, regardless of numbers, and out of the guild itself would be a strong likelihood as well, unless she’s genuinely unaware of her mistakes.
Admin
I keep meaning to do that — and I have started collecting some footage when I remember (for some reason I always think of it just after a movement heavy fight). I was planning on a video focusing on using jump-disengage movement, since “shoot & scoot” is pretty straight forward and self-explanatory.
I haven’t decided if this’ll go here on the WHU, or over on wow.com yet though. Either way, it’s probably a bit off, depending on my ability to remember to start up FRAPS before fights
I knew someone a little like this. I was a brand new raider, and he was the top DPS in my guild. He taught me so much about huntering that I’m glad he was there, but he annoyed the hunter officer to no end because he only did the bare minimum of what was required (kited 2+ adds on Razorgore – probably to show off – but refused to pull to tanks in MC).
If you can afford to lose an epic DPS, it’s probably worth it. Someone so stubborn as to not DPS blood beasts at all is someone that will eventually hinder your raid more than her DPS makes up for.
I’m still waiting for someone to invent the add-on that will “break” the parties Recount…preferably one that will wipe the data and give you an error message along the lines of “WATCH THE FIGHT AND STOP WATCHING YOUR NUMBERS, YOU IDIOT.”
I wouldn’t use it all the time, but man, I’d love to have that…
Member
You know, reading this, I feel I must appologize. My guild is currently doing ToC10, and while I do try to help out, I’m not doing enough. Whenever someone announces they have a snobold on them or there is a portal up, my first thought itsn’t get the adds down, its get my numbers up. I think for awhile I’m going to raid with Recount off, just so I can focus on raiding instead of numbers. Thanks for bringing this too my attention. Happy Hunting!
Member
Yeah I think we all run into these folks from time to time. The raid guild I just got into has a DK that is in love with himself & his DPS . He does very good on the ICC trash pulls as he is Unholy AOE spec but for his gear he is just ok IMO on single target stuff. He is the 1st to volunteer to be the one that just DPS the boss and when asked to kite a slime on Rotface or something like that he fails horribly so he is never asked to do it again. But he gets allot of gear so as long as that kind of behavior is rewarded it will go on. So The hunter “Ms Egopuff” will keep doing it unless the raid lead puts their foot down. If she is doing real good DPS she has apparently got gear from somewhere so she is probably thinking that she has got to where she is by acting the way she does so why change.
Just my opinion Im not the burning bush or anything.. PEACE
Im levelling a new hunter at the moment (switched servers) and my party keeps being surprised about me following the tank for a frost trap (so mobs cant flee and draw more mobs) and then disengaging back.
Or having taunt active on my pet on ‘difficult’ bosses so that if something goes wrong my pet is #2… Lets face it, Mr furball is replacable, your healer isnt.
Its always the simple things that provide the team with so much more compared to going for top recount, yet so few people nowadays that understand how the game mechanics work.
This is by far one of the best post posts I’ve seen about hunters with the #’s problem. As a main tank with ahunter alt, I see this a great deala nd I’mg lad there ae othe’s who are aware of it. Often a hunter will go “Oooh look at my deeps!” but dont’ even have Md on the hotbar when I ask them about it. There’s far more to being good dps than jsut pushing the numbers.
I have had this problem with a few arcane mages who refuse to switch if they get a proc which is just lols. So I gave them a few warnings then kicked (I currently need mages!!!!) but something I always do normally is run dps races on things like who can get the most damage on adds on deathbringer and not lose all dps on boss gets 50g. Its not much gold but it is announced to the raid which is a massive ego boost for who ever wins (I do normally so i give myself gold!!!) but it really does boost the performance of the raid. Its nice to do this with fights your currently learning and make the rewards for doing something which improves the raid.
Something else btw guys if your getting low on mana regularly on fights make sure your ret pala is using judge of wisdom I have been asked quite a bit by other hunters about mana issues in raids and turns out the ret palas in there groups have been using judge of light like tards.
HAPPY HUNTING!
I do a good amount of raid leading in my guild, and occasionally for pick up raids. I’ve come across this problem a number of times while raiding, especially in pick up raids or with a guild runs where we need a few pick up players. The hunter or mage or rogue would put out huge numbers on a boss fight. Then I would check Recount and notice that though they did fantastic dps and overall damage, they did not change targets, misdirect, etc. So I simply added the following line to my loot rules macro: “Players that do not do their assigned roles (switch to adds, interrupt spells, misdirect to tank, etc.) are not eligible for loot.” I have found it works in pick up raids. Players that in the past that you might have pleaded with to switch targets, for example, suddenly do their jobs when something they care about more than top dps is at stake. And since it worked so well, I added it to our guild loot rules. Now everyone does their assigned jobs.
Member
My guild currently runs two hunters, one of which is me, and we both stand on the corner of the stairs waiting on the beasts to spawn to lay a frost trap down, once the beast gets out of that AoE its a conc shot, it works every time and we have never failed on that fight. i totally agree with frost here, i’ve seen many huntards doing these kind of things, MD should be used almost every CD, FD also when it pops premptively, as that way you can go hell for leather on the mob. Target switching can be rectified by assigning a Main Assist, i made a simple macro for assisting, its not rocket science. Sadly, a majority of plays only care about their ego, loot, and topping those recount meters with DPS. You can try and educate bad players, and some listen and adapt, and change, but there is always those few that thing they are gods gift to warcraft, and still do whatever they want regardless, thankfully, im in one of the top raiding guild on my server, and that kind of thinking is easily rectified with a /gkick.
I agree with Trathalan, the top dps means nothing if the raid fail.
Oh dear,
Our guild has a number of hunters, and I am usually at the bottom of the gear list as I can’t raid as much as the others. (but thanks to this site, my numbers are still way up there)
That being said, since the new MD works so well, you must be insane not to use it (at least) to help the rest of your raid.
Seriously if you are not following your raid leaders instructions and knowing your job before going into a raid you are just making yourself a big huntard.
I am not perfect but jeez, if you don’t pay your dues, you are going to find yourself a very lonely huntard….
Great post! I wouldn’t be surprised if this very MsEgo was a hunter I used to unfortunately raid with. There is a girl hunter and her boyfriend shaman who raided with me for a long time. They are the type of players that one will not raid without the other, and they only do raids where they can get something out of it. Needless to say, this selfishness bothered me to no end. I kept my mouth shut and bided my time. Sure enough they left our guild because we weren’t doing what they wanted. Time went by and that same couple ended up in an ICC25 group with me. We got to Marrowgar and he raid leader wanted everyone to stack behind the boss… hunters included. His reasoning was that it would keep most of the raid out of the flames keeping less stress on healers and make it easier to burn down spikes. We start the fight and everyone is stacked except for MsEgo. She is the lone person back in the back pewpewing away. The raid leader kept calling out in vent for her to follow instructions and she refused. He kicked her, replaced her and her boyfriend with team players, and what do you know… we one shot the rest of the bosses. Call it karma, but she got what she deserved and we had an enjoyable night.
“This obviously upset and offended me. It’s true she pushes bigger numbers than I did, better gear, better raiding spec, and it’s true she moves better than I ever did, jumpshots better than I ever did….but she’s possibly the biggest huntard I have ever had the misfortunate of being aware of.”
Sounds like your hunter competition was better then you but they’re just cocky and dickish or bitchish in this case. I think its funny your getting pissed that this person called you out in your own guild. If something like that happened in my guild then they’d get gkicked on the spot and nothing more would have been said.
I’m very competitive when it comes to the meters but I know that I have a job to do in any given fight. To satisfy my competitive nature I work out a way to measure my performance for a particular fight and focus on that.
There’s a DK in our guild who hits like a truck. He stays on Saurfang for the entire fight. I’m normally on top of the DPS meters but obviously its a bit hard to do that with hitting the Blood Beasts so for this fight, I make it my mission to close the gap between him and I. DPS “success” for me on this fight involves smashing those adds and then unloading on the boss (repeat) and keeping the gap between us as small as possible.
To do this I’ve gotta unload on those adds and make sure that my target switching is flawless. Measuring my performance in this way, whilst not getting me on top of the meters like the Huntard in the OP, makes me perform better imo.
Hunters like this woman just upset me. Topping meters is crap if you dont get some rewards. You dont get rewards by focusing on yourself and not killing bosses. She needs to re-assess the way she gauges success.
/gkick her, screenshot it and post it here for all the Dues Payers to see!
Gaeb
I have never posted on a public forum such as this but this post made me compelled to do so. I love being a hunter, I love those huge dps number we can pump out but more importantly I love the utility of our class. Those jobs that a hunter can do well (but often lower our dps) are the most fun for me, eg taking care of Blood Beasts, kiting the enraged add on Deathswhisper, that first MD straight after Bonestorm finishes on Marrogar, those wonderfully heady days of kiting seemingly endless zombies on Gluth etc etc. My point is turn off Recount and enjoy using skills rather than standing as still as possible shooting bosses in the face
Amen to this post! There are so many Ms/Mr. Egopuff’s in the game. The best thing is not to give them too much attention because they generally don’t listen anyway. And if they do better dps than you do, others will probably not listen either.
Another favourite is non potty trained SV hunters (or soem former SV hunters switching to ArP MM hunters with no HM) spraying their mark over my talented and glyphed mark because they just insist on using single-player (or just dumb) macro’s or simply because ‘it is a habbit’. I made a macro that friendly (!) reminds them once (!) they should not do it, and then they simply just /ignore me.
The point here is, that as in real life, when commenting on others, many people feel atacked in their honour or something and react regardless if you are right. It is therefore better not to comment right away, but start with a complement.
“Wow, your dps is really good. Can you give me some tips”.
And after that, “Now can I give you some of my advise …”
That often works pretty well.
And if not, well, some personallities just suck. Just as in real life, ignore them as much as possible.
This is an incredible post and I wish there was a way to broadcast it to every hunter out there. I will be sharing this with my guild members, many of which have a hunter. In recent months I have been splitting my time between my Tank and my Hunter.
As a tank I quickly realized how many really bad hunters there are out there, including myself. I am not guilty of purposely pulling the stuff she did however there are some things I realized I did that secretly frustrated tanks, such as dpsing too early. I now have a 3-5 second count before I begin and am religious about it
Nothing pisses me off more when I taunt and am trying to get the boss into position than some (retarded 
ranged grabbing the boss, (usually with a crit given everyones high crit these days), before he is in melee range or before I finish my initial threat generating rotation.
Given our ability to generate threat, to make or break a raid, and even pull a group through a bad situation such as using MD to help the tank with threat such as Frostheim suggests I would recommend at least part time tanking for hunters to any hunter out there.
I must admit I was this person that you were speaking of. Not literally her, but her clone. Never realized to what degree I was playing for “recount” and not the completion of the instance.
It actually sounds like the wayward hunter is leeching off the raid, to be honest. If the raid has the Saurfang fight down pat, they probably won’t miss her DPS on the blood beasts. But if they’re learning Saurfang, her refusal to DPS the bloodbeasts will probably wipe the raid.
If my raid is one-shotting bosses, we’re usually more tolerant of such buggery, or won’t notice it at all. But if we’re wiping, or learning fights, it’s a very common procedure to look at damage done on adds/ spikes/ other stuff.
Member
In my guild we have a standing rule for anybody not doing his/her assigned durties. This even goes for PUGS. For anyone who does not follow the strategy placed in front of them will get a MD, the healers will not heal them, and the tank will not pull the Enemy off of them. Sure this creates problems at times but we make sure to tell them that if the rules aren’t followed then your toon WILL DIE! A little harsh but one or two punishment deaths they start following the strategy.
my friends and i all have tank/heals/dps alts so we can help each other out in a pinch. as tanks, we do not fight idiots for aggro. we just won’t. as heals, we do not heal idiots who pull aggro. we have better things to do. if they complain, we explain to them that they’re tards and need to watch their aggor. some stay and do well. others stay and die often. most leave. problem solved.
Member
Ability To Solve:
Cmurph, that has to be by far the best solution to the problem I have heard and, unfortunately, expirenced in a heroic. People in Vent talkign to someone and badgering them about what they are doing may not always have such an effecta as is desired. If that person has refused to comply and is now not getting heals, not being taunted off of, and being put extra agro onto, they start to realize real fast that they play the proper way becuase they aren’t able to play their way anyways.
Member
Like Jesus says, “Don’t be a dick”. {PennyArcade paraphrse}. I have to agree that as hunters, utility/teamwork is 1st in a raid or group. DPS is second.
I’m not a raider, I have 1 level 80 hunter, who I retired, and a new one I just created on a different server. A lot of the info you listed in this note however just is common sense to me. (As to whether I could pull it off, I doubt it, as I said I don’t raid.)
I wish this guild well, however it sounds like they might be on the way to a drama meltdown.
Love the site, keep up the good work!
Meecham
Do you guys really play with raid tanks who need MD’s during a fight? I’m not a half bad hunter myself, and I only MD tanks mid-fight for adds. The way tank threat works right now, if you have players threatening to pull threat, or who actually do, a minute or so into a fight, your tank is seriously doing it wrong.
I agree with most everything else. Just that one thing popped out at me. I’m someone who LOVES to top damage meters, and so I grumbe my way through fights like Saurfang where I essentually trade the top DPS spot for that spot on the meter about three or four above the tank, but that’s okay, because for every fight like Saurfang, there’s a fight like Lady Deathwhisper demanding the melee to scurry and scamper and lose DPS in transit from one target to the next.
But seriously … MD to the tank … mid fight … and it’s not for an add? Your tanks are terrible.
This just reaffirms that I will download and install Omen over Recount when my current Hunter gets to raiding. I don’t care about chart topping as long as I’m doing what needs to be done. Now if I fall behind the healer on dps, lol, I’ll rethink that. But better then being ahead of the Tank on aggro.
Pretty much I am the lone steady raiding hunter in the guild I am in. When we do try out another hunter, to help & ease the burden of doing all the little things. I kinda of enjoy doing the little things that help a raid keep rolling versus having to stroke my ego on meters. With that said im usually top 3 dont usually stray lower than top 5 except H 25 Blood Princes(im on full time kinetic orb duty). So doing what should be doing can be fun, watching meters and wiping just waste of everyones time
Oh, as of yet still cant find a hunter who isnt a friend in another guild to fill the void.