Here’s the latest news:
Hunter’s mana is GONE!!! Hunters now use focus, no longer care about intellect or mana regen. Focus regenerates contunously, Steady shot improves the rate of getting focus back. Rogue energy comes back at a 10 / sec rate, Hunter focus comes back at 6/sec (12/sec with steady shot) A shot costs 30 to 60 focus. Hunters will have fewer cooldowns on abilities Ammos will become an item, not a consumable. Hunter’s new ammos might drop from bosses or bought with emblems, nothing is decided for the moment. Cataclysm will change the ways abilities are learned. Abilities ranks are gone and ability will just scale progressively with levels instead. Most of the Talent Trees will be changed dramatically, a lot of the passive bonuses will be removed and talent trees should be more fun. (No more “Hurray! Level up! I just got 1% more hit!) Shadowmourne – You won’t get Frostmourne in Icecrown but Death Knights and Hunters will get a Legendary Axe named Shadowmourne. Attack Power: We’re removing Attack Power from items as well. Instead, we’re allowing Agility to provide the necessary Attack Power for leather and mail wearers. Strength will provide the appropriate amount of Attack Power for plate wearers. This means leather and mail items will no longer be desirable for plate wearers. Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and “mathy.” It is being replaced with Mastery, a stat that makes you better at what you do. More on that later! Haste: Will also increase the rate at which you gain energy, runes, and focus. Retribution paladins and Enhancement shaman will have a talent that allows them to take advantage of this benefit. Stamina: Players will notice more Stamina on gear as Defense, Spell Power, Attack Power and Armor Penetration are removed.
Well, this was hinted at earlier, but I’m really a bit shell shocked that they’re getting rid of mana for hunters! Now don’t get me wrong, in a lot of ways it makes sense. We’re a physical damage dealing class, so it’s logical to separate us from the caster resource mechanic. It’s just… very, very different. This is something that’s going to take a LOT of relearning.
I know a lot of people hate change this big – and it’s big change. But I’m going to reserve judgement until I see it in action. I will say that I think managing focus is much more difficult than managing mana — it’s very time intensive — rather than worrying about running out of mana in a few minutes, you need to make use of your focus within a single global cooldown to be optimized. This will change everything about how we play our class.
I also strongly approve of the idea of simplifying stats. It is interesting for us oldtimers to see attack power leaving and being replaced with agility — since that’s essentially how it worked for us in vanilla. But seeing them making an effort to make stats understandable without terribly complicated math is very nice.
So ultimately I’m very excited about the overall cataclysm stuff (Azeroth revamped) and some hunter specific things (legendary weapon! No ammo!) but I’m a bit… well, a bit cautious about some of the other changes. It’s not the first time we’ve had to relearn our class from scratch (2.0 and steady shot pretty much did that) but it’s definitely the biggest change ever.
Omg it’s true! A guildy posted this in guild chat today and I was hoping she got it off a post made as a cruel joke… but here it is.
I agree with you though.. on the fact that it’s not SO bad. We’ve had to relearn our class before and we can do it again. One thing I’m looking forward to is a more complex shot rotation. I’m very glad to see the diffuculty of our class pushed more away from choosing gear and into our rotation. And who knows, maybe the hunters still left over after the DK craze will be scared away for good.
When everything comes down to it though it’s a wait and see thing.. lets just hope we don’t end up being too under or over powered. Last thing we need is another reason for people to think we aren’t earning our placement on the dps charts.
*Hangs his head* I had JUST got my head round it all… *Sighs*
My jaw was on the floor for most of the WoW discussions on the Live Feed. So many things to take in. Personally I welcome alot of the changes in general and specifically for hunters. A bit unsure on the total focus vs focus regen if shots will cost that amount, but im sure it will all pan out in the end =)
Exciting times ahead ^_^
I play my hunter since tbc (so i havent been playing old skool in vanilla as a hunter) ..
But when i watched blizzcon yesterday, i was majorly SHOCKED when they said that mana will be replaced with focus ..
I played a rogue for some levels .. and focus annoyed the hell out of me ..
a shot costs 30-60 focus with a regen of 6-12 f/s ..
so u will be able to use 2-3 shots and then run OoF (out of focus xD?) ..
and then, lower cooldowns: how to profit when we dont have focus?
the lost of ArP is amazing imo ..
i hate that stat tbh =/ ..
the new ammo-mechanics are nice as well ..
i’m wondering how it will work out, since they are going to add more then dps on the arrows then (like idols and totems, they got some special effects) ..
ammo might get stats or special effects as well ..
cata means relearning my class from scrap ..
i dont like the mana-gone idea ..
i hope ill still enjoy my hunter after cata
Huntyoudood: I believe Haste will increase the rate at which focus is regenerated. I don’t know how much, but perhaps it’ll be enough to make it easier to manage.
i don’t know about you guys, but my steady shot is used most, so the regen should be great, BUT i do feel i will be losing out on the dps meters, at least with mana i could quickly pop a pot if needed or viper it up for a few seconds then go back to dragonhawk.
i don’t know for sure though, i’m a fairly new player (feb this year) and i’m still kind of stuck on the “i need mana” thing
i think i might have got the whole hunter thing down just in time for this expansion to pop
we shall see.
Any chance of Viper being converted to some kind of uber-fast Focus regeneration?
^^ that would be nice, but i think they said it will pretty much be gone
I am guessing it will work pretty much the same. Now, on boss fight that I know will be over prety fast and needs max DPS ..I just blow everything as fast as I can and suck down a potion just before I run out……on longer fights I’m more careful, save my CDs and might even use viper for a while to make sure I don’t run out in the crucial last few seconds………when there’s only me and the healer left and I NEED that last kill shot or it’s a wipe LOL
as been said, i just hope playing it remains fun. i levelled a druid and hated feral cat spec cuz i didnt like the resource system. now i dont know if ranged will be better, and i do prefer ranged to melee classes, but i just hope they dont ruin what i love about playing hunter class.
though i dont mind aspect of viper will be leaving. if i have to explain aotv’s effect to one more recount worshipper, im gonna snap.
Blizzard:”Hunters are OP, lets make them use focus so all classes can kill them”
Other Blizzard Programmers:”Yeah, it will take them weeks to figure out how to play again, and while we’re at it let’s stealth buff rogues and DK again…..”
I’m here still hoping that they scrap this whole “focus” system at the last minute. I’ve played a rogue, and the Energy system really annoyed me, I would never have enough Energy when I needed it. With Mana for hunters, I’ve never really had that problem. Normally when I run low I just pop Aspect of the Viper for a couple seconds and then I’m good to go during a fight.
I understand their want to give Hunters a different resource system than casters, but I would like it better if it was based off MANA, not ENERGY.
Count me among those skeptical of energy instead of mana. I like how our class works at a fundamental level, and my lone experience with a rogue was not terribly pleasant.
Too “mathy.” Heh. I guess I’m so used to dummy testing and spreadsheets that “mathy” stuff doesn’t bother me. Hopefully this doesn’t represent a dumbing down of classes, however.
All good stuff otherwise. Change is feared by many, and won’t be universally well-received. But the “wait and see” attitude is the appropriate one. Hopefully Blizz gets it right.
Essentially peak-dps (= empty mana at max speed) should go down, while continous dps should be the same (or perhaps up as we don’t have to go in viper).
Some history here. Before vanilla during beta, hunter’s did use focus. They choose mana, as they didn’t like it. So the idea is not new. And as grandpaps like Frost and me can tell you, mana regen behaviour has been constantly changing as well. Too fast regen means we have not just a high burst, but the burst keep on all the time. Too low means we were stuck with autoshot and our dps tanked …
The viper behaviour was changed also several times. At first it didn’t do much, then too much. Remember the viper-thing as we know today was only added in 3.0, as before many hunter’s just ran continously in viper instead of hawk because the mana-regen was worth the loss in AP. Blizzard obviously didn’t like that, so they changed viper again with the dps nerf.
But apparently they don’t like this either, but still believe that our burst-dps is too high?
So I see focus as a nerf to our burst dps, and an attempt to make our constant-dps more stable? But of course we’ll have to see.
(I hope they leave it as is, as I kind of like the viper-hawk-switch tacts and theory.)
About that having to see, when will it be released. Sounds perhaps strange, but I hope not too fast. I mean, it is less than a year since the previous upgrade. There is so much more to explore and do before we ‘need’ a new patch. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, but it is a fit fast compared to previous upgrades.
I could go the evil route and say, Blizzard needed an excuse to charge money for a patch and decided to call it extention. (Just kidding obvously
). But the other explanation is that they run out of ideas for the Lichking other than killing him, which they want to postpone. And I mean, Ulduar and the Coloseum are in a way delays – great delays, dont get me wrong – to the story of the final assault to him.
Wow. Just wow. I’m not too sure about the no mana thing although like you said Frost it “does make sense”. Shots are totally different from spells, so why are we using a source of energy from magic? But jeez, That is going to change the way hunters are played.
And how about gear? Will intellect be replaced by e.g. haste – or do we have to farm new godly epic gear once again? Don’t think I could live with that
Armin: The release of the expansions has so far been pretty consistent. The Burning Crusade was announced at BlizzCon 2005 and was released January 2007. Wrath of the Lich King was announced at Blizzcon 2007 and was released November 2008. Cataclysm was announced at Blizzcon 2009 and if they hold steady, it will be released sometime late 2010.
To complex or mathy?? I liked the variety. Choosing between pieces of gear which each had its benefits made it interesting. Sure there is one piece that will provide max dps against a raid boss but not all of us could get it for every slot. Besides some of us don’t just raid and like the choices when gearing up for the build and style we want to play. Now it seems anyone a 4 year old who can count can decide that +___ agi is higher than +___ agi so this is the better gear for what ever build or way you want to play.
I played a rogue for awhile and wasn’t to happy with focus either. Why not just come up with something different instead of focus or mana.
I’m actually pretty excited by all this. I havent been around long enough to remember the last time we had to redo our entire class. But I have had fun changing the way I think about a hunter. Everything from switching from BM to SV. Switching my AP stacking mentality to Agility. Even as simple as switching from XPerl to Pit Bull. Change is good. And there’s also a good possibility something like this will scare away the people that hate change, and make the average hunter just a little less Huntarded.
I’m really excited about the guild leveling system that is being put in place. Each guild will have it’s own “talent tree” and can level up to 20.
Some Example Talents include:
Everybody’s friend: Removes the reagent requirement for raid wide buff spells
Cash flow: increases: the gold drop rate by 7% for all kills from creatures or players that reward experience or honor.
Another example: Summon your entire raid instantly!!!
Oh, and guilds will be able to purchase heirloom recipes that can be used to craft heirloom items. These items can be shared with guild members. If a person leaves the guild, the heirloom item is automatically returned to the guild bank.
Personally quite like the idea of using focus, sounds a bit more fun, and as you said, settles hunters in a bit more nicely with phsyical classes. I’m quite excited about it all
The changes to mana are interesting I must say – I know mana conservation with trash mobs prior to boss fights sometimes puts me on the wrong side of grumpy PUG raid leaders so it will be very interesting to see whether they actual adjust focus regeneration. Popping a pot during a difficult fight was always a good fall back.
One of the most interesting things for me is the removal of both APs (Attack Power from Items and Armour Penetration overall) and the re-emphasis on agiilty. For a raiding survival hunter that is enviously looking at the green grass of MM, it has meant a more wait and see approach before I re-spec and re-gem.
And I wait with baited breath as to what “Mastery” will mean.
Overall? I am excited because people that truly love this class will deal with the changes and find a way to come out on the right side of the ledger. I am really looking forward to the upcoming discussions on how we as a class are going to come out on top again.
Those that liked the ease of play and can’t be bothered with having to think their way through re-working their mechanics, well, have fun with your Worgen Death Knight.
And a quick welcome to humans for joining the Union on the Alliance side.
Does anyone else now think that the South Park WoW Episode with Kenny as a Human Hunter might have been the BIGGEST hidden spoiler ever? Or was it just old code from beta that was used…hmmm I might go back and re-watch it to see what else they have hidden there…
Tag, ah, good point. So only late 2010. In a way that makes me happy because that means there should be probably 2 patches more before we get the extention.
On the other hand, as the trailer mentions “As the terrible war against the Lich King continous …” this means we will not down him the next 1,5 years …
From WoW.com’s coverage of the second class panel:
“Don’t want to turn Hunters into ranged Rogues. Class doesn’t have to be so cooldown-locked any more, more about choices of abilities. Aspect of the Viper definitely won’t do what it does today, but it might be there. Maybe AotV will go away, maybe Aspects will go away. (!)”
Armin: A lot of people have come to the same conclusion as you have when watching the trailer. I do think it’s a bit confusion, but at the same time I think it can be interpreted another way.
I believe that the trailer’s narrator was talking about the events that are currently taking place. While we are fighting to secure peace, circumstances are unfolding that will make such peace impossible. Those circumstances being the re-emergence of Deathwing and the cataclysm that changes Azeroth.
I don’t think the events the narrator first describes actually take place during or after the cataclysm. That’s how I read it anyway.
STEADY SHOT WILL NOT USE ANY FOCUS!!!! And will regen focus!!
Im actually excited, iv been waitinig for this for a very long time. Finally i wont have that 5sec pause in pvp where all i can do is strif left and right for my next CD
Personally I don’t think Aspect of the Viper will still be in the game just because with focus regenerating as fast as it does it would be pretty much overkill. But with the whole focus thing, I am not 100% excited about it, but if Blizzard can make it work, maybe it will be good, or even better than mana.
I wonder how this is going to effect our ability to kite. Anyone have any suggestions? Maybe they will do away with the play dead CD, lol
Is there any indication as to when this will be released?
@Tag and Mogon,
The Devs have indicated that it will be before the next BlizzCon
The next expansion will be released in 2010 — likely in the summer.
My pets have 100 focus points and go thru them pretty quickly. If we are given 100 and our shots are going to cost 30 and 60 points, that won’t leave room for break away mobs. break away mobs cause me to kite. If i’ve drained my focus and have to kite, how is that going to work since you can’t move while using steady shot? Are they planning on changing steady shot or at least reduce the cool down on play dead?
I generally like the idea of focus replacing mana but my concern is (no matter how logical it is): you can only fire steady shot when standing still. But there are not too much bosses now where you can just stand and fire shots. And mostly if this is possible, it is “burn” phase in which you need to fire the big shots, not your filler shot… But yeah, I cant know anything now about how the rotations will look like in one year…
One more thing: anybody knows if hunters will have only 100 focus? That would be pretty lame to be able to shoot just 2-3 shots. Then you would have stand still for 8 seconds to be abole to fire 5 steady shots and get back to 100… Yeah, there might be talents to increace it for some amopunt but still, 100 is toooo low
@Deepfriedegg
Nah, a lot of the druid cat (never played rogue) abilities cost 30-40 focus. Without talents they can be up to 60..
I’m guessing they said 30-60 because like the cat, talents will reduce the cost.
Also, if you’re waiting for max energy before attacking again bad hunter bad!
Ok, I admit…I’ve only really delved deeply in to the Hunter info from Cataclysm. How do our sweeping changes compare with other class changes? Are they all getting totally new mechanics?
They gotta be kidding,
first they destroyed our <33 bm TOTALY
now this ? hunters with focus instad of mana ?
its just like learn to play a new char,
Greetings Frost,
I may be mistaken, but didn’t the blues post about wanting to encourage more shapeshifting in druids and stance-dancing in warriors during their ‘class focus’ a short while back?
If that is the case, why could they possible think that it is a good idea to pull hunters (who are well used to switching aspects) OUT of that environ? Very peculiar.
Hopefully when it comes time for beta-testing it all makes sense.
Awesome site and thanks for helping make me a better Hunter.
Yes, Blizz did talk about wanting more druid shapeshifting and warrior stance dancing. They’ve also talked in the past about wanting LESS hunter aspect changing. That’s why they combined monkey and hawk into dragonhawk. They don’t want us to feel like we should be switching aspect much.