There’s been a lot of Cataclysm discussion, questions, and complaints here on the WHU and in emails I’ve been receiving. So it seemed like a good time to make some educated guesses and predictions of how things might be for us hunters in the expansion.
Here are my thoughts on how the Cataclysm expansion will work out for hunters.
“Stats Are Going to Be Too Simple!”
I disagree with this fairly common statement. Right now, without questions, stats are too complicated. They need to be simpler. In fact I had a big post in the queue about just this: Blizz keeps talking about wanting to make things intuitively understandable, and I contrasted how complex stats have gotten compared to vanilla. I now wish I had posted that before the announcement 
- Armor Penetration is horribly complex. Sure, we can understand it (and Blizz had to explain it to us before even the theorycrafters could understand it) but that doesn’t make it good. It’s certainly not intuitive. Of course, armor pen will still be around, just not as a stat on gear.
- Hit & Crit Rating: I’m sure they’ll still be around and on our gear — though some of our hit and crit talents will likely turn into a Path of Titans thing instead of a talent.
- Attack Power will still be around, just not as a stat on gear, and we’ll probably still have talents with attack power boosts. As someone who remembers the delightful days when 1 agil = 2 AP for hunters, I am all about going back there!
- Agility: our beloved agility will be better than ever. Supposedly we’re going back to 1 agil = 2AP, plus of course the crit rating we get from it.
- Haste: we’ll still have it, only they’re talking about changing it so that it affects energy/runes/focus. I think this will immediately make haste the new complicated stat. If haste does end up increasing our energy regen, I think we’ll see various “haste plateaus.” So for example your shot rotation is A,A,B,C,C,C until you get 150 haste, then it becomes A,A,A,B,C,C. Getting a few more haste won’t really help you, but then when you get to 320 haste you hit another plateau that changes your rotation again.
Honestly, while I think this is likely, I hope Blizz finds a way to avoid it – again because it’s complicated as all heck. It will mean that in many situations haste won’t help at all, until you get a certain amount, then you get a big boost. An intuitive stat is not one that sometimes doesn’t help you at all.
So this makes our stats on gear that we care about basically: agility, hit rating, crit rating, haste, and to some extent stamina. Now keep in mind that Blizz may introduce a new stat (their goal isn’t less stats, but less confusing stats after all) or they may give us reasons to want Int or Str or whatever in our talents – just like SV has a dps use for stamina currently.
Energy Instead of Mana
I’m totally with all you guys that changing hunters to energy is a daunting prospect. It will, after all, completely change the way we look at our class. What we know right now (and anything can change) is that Blizz is planning on having hunters regen 6 energy/sec and 12/sec with steady shot – and our shots will cost 30-60 energy. So here’s what I think:
Steady Shot will cost no energy, and will just up our regen rate – that’s our filler shot. Blizz does not want us to go back to vanilla where we just sat there auto-shotting for a while until we had a shot available. We should always have something to do. Steady shot will likely remain our lowest damaging special, and still have the 1.5 sec cast time.
Some of our shots will still be on cooldown. They pretty much have to be in order for us to ever use more than one shot — after all, we can just take the shot divided by the energycost to find the shot that is the most damage per energy and then that’s the only one we’d ever use!
However, I would expect to see some high energy high damage shots that are not as efficient damage per energy (dpe) that we can use in certain burst situations (like a MD pull). Also we might have shots like Chimera Shot that is not as good dpe as arcane (for example) but we want to use it every so often to keep our serpent sting refreshed.
I suspect we’ll see arcane shot being our base shot at 30 energy, with others costing more. Perhaps arcane is the one shot they’ll put a cooldown on, so we can’t just spam it all the time.
Faster Energy Regen
Also keep in mind that we won’t be limited strictly to the 6/12 energyper second. Haste is supposed to increase our rate of energy regeneration. And don’t forget talents. While I don’t think we’ll get combo points like rogues or wanna be rogue cats, I do think we’ll see talents that will increase our energt regen. Imagine a talent that gives you have a chance on crit of regening 1 energy, or reduces the energy cost of certain shots, or all shots, etc. Or chance to proc shots that cost no energy, much like Lock & Load now.
Shot Rotations
As far as shot cycles — keep in mind that even if you drain your energy down to zero, that’s only 3 steady shots before you’re back over 30. Add in haste and talents and we’ll probably have two steady shots, then an arcane, then another two steadies, then we have enough for two specials, etc. You can choose to do more steady shots to build up more energy for specials, or to be ready to burst on enrages, etc.
So basically I think our rotation will involve more weaving, rather than just blow everything in priority.
Also I wouldn’t be surprised to see some shots become free, or cost very, very little. Tranquilizing shot comes to mind — when you need it, you need it. You don’t want to be out of energy (of course they could decide that’s part of the strategy for the fight).
Theorycrafting Gets Harder
I think that energy will make theorycrafting much harder. In fact, when managing shot rotations with haste energy regen and other proc energy regen talents, spreadsheets are going to become pretty essential for certain sections of theorycrafting.
I never envied rogues their theorycrafting, nor the complexities invovled with managing rotations with energy timing. On the other hand, we should have slightly improved burst potential out of the gate with full energy (assuming, of course, our hunter’s mark/serpent sting etc. initial pull spells don’t drain us out of the gate).
I also dearly hope that they don’t put energy cost on any of our pet related abilities — like Kill Command, etc.
Life Will Be Good – Different, But Good
Ultimately I thank we can agree that WoW has improved greatly from vanilla days. There have been overpowered classes and underpowered classes, and those keep changing from patch to patch, but overall things have steadily improved.
There are a lot of exciting and awesome things coming in Cataclysm. The massive, massive hunter overhaul is scary, sure. But to some extent we just have to trust Blizzard who has made and improved upon this great game we all play. The designers and developers there love the game too, and they only want it to be better.
So while I’m as intimidated as you by the hunter overhaul, I have to have faith that we’ll end up even better on the other side of it.
I believe that the theorycrafting will get easier- basically someone only has to program the new environment into rawr (once) and run some sims to answer the hard questions (once) and then blogs and threads on theorycrafting forums will perpetuate the information. Any descrepancies between the simulation supported data and real life will lead to more testing, of course, but generally the new system doesn’t seem much more complex than the current one.
I’m usually on the cynical side of any major change. They introduced a DK and took 6 months before I could sit down again from the reaming I got in PVP from them.
This change will be massive and I have no faith it will be for the better for the class (to start with anyway, maybe after another 6 months of patches and corrections it might balance). This is gonna take alot of testing and old school hunters who’ve known the joy of mana for years after they switched it. I really feel it was an un-needed change brought on by endless complaints from Hunters who simply couldn’t mana manage. If they had such trouble with a limitless system where they could go flat out for 3-5 minutes (in a raid setting) before having to spend 30 seconds regenerating. What chance will they have with a resource as complex as energy/focus? They’ll spend 90% of their time staring at the energy bar to the exclusion of all else.
Welcome back the Huntard staring at energy/focus allowance instead of threat and the situation going on around him/her.
Like I said, cynical. =-|
It might be kind of difficult for the theory crafting spreadsheet writer, but it wont be a difficult change for the end user.
It will be different than before, but i don’t see it being difficult.
Also, the energy change will throw a wrench into our class, but it will be a fun new angle to learn. It’s like rolling an alt, but starting at level 80. Plus hopefully they’ll screw it up in our favor at the beginning and we’ll be more OP than ever and not the other way around.
You nailed it in one Zat, its exactly how I feel “…hopefully they’ll screw it up in our favor at the beginning…”.
Hunters have enjoyed some OP for awhile, I’m more of the persuasion that we’ll get skunked at first. Alot of folks have been complaining about hunters because it looks so easy, we drop ALL our aggro, and we get to hog Top 5 dps. I look at “the change” as a method of reducing the overall amount of hunters. We’re popular and uber survivable for dungeons and leveling, energy will scare off a goodly portion of players.
…and I’m okay with that =)
Stat simplification:
Streamlining stats is absolutely necessary, but concerns are that they’re going too far and will essentially remove some of the thought from the game. More AGI = Get that piece, as opposed to having to think about whether results might be better with less AGI, vs. some AGI, AP, and a bit more crit. Non-hunters looking at INT+spellpower vs something involving mana per 5? I actually *like* that aspect of the game. The 2 hr post-loot trade window we now have makes it easier for us. Loot you’ve never seen before? Looks good? We can put in for an item we think we’d like (which, as dues payers, we normally would have reviewed and decided upon prior to the raid), take a few minutes afterwards, and then offer it back up to the raid if it’s not all that we’d hoped for.
Haste-based shot rotation changes already occur for some classes, though currently due to casting time as opposed to mana regen time. It’ll be a sizable change for us, as we start trying to figure shot cycles based on energy returns rather than managing them as maximum DPS over a fairly sizable mana pool.
Focus:
I do like the idea of us changing to the same energy/focus mechanic that our pets use. What will this mean for burst damage? Will we no longer be able to go flat out for a few minutes and then drop into a sustained DPS rotation? One would assume that there will be talents similar to those that currently provide focus boosts for our pets.
Mixed bag of emotions on this. No more INT requirements, but then again, a good potential for less class diversity.
I just wish I had been at the Blizzcon Q&A. I still dont really understand why Blizz is choosing now to make these giant changes. The class has functioned the same for 5 years, and now they just decide its not the right way. Were the only class in the game that has to 1. Be at range to deal decent damage 2. pay for every attack we make, and now 3. relearn the basic fundamentals of playing our class all over again. I’m not sure any class can claim an equally huge overhaul.
After reading this I am no longer completely against it…I still think it is probably too simple…you do make some excellent points though…I am now looking forward to trying out focus…as long as I am feel like I am playing a hunter not a rogue
Well, you probably wont have that feeling, being range at all. Admittedly, a ranged rogue sounds pretty sweet.
Also, your picture shows a yellow energy bar Frost. Lets not sugarcoat it. Us hunters will have to get used to looking at a poo brown Focus bar. The only yellow we’ll see is the pieces of corn.
A fair assessment, Frost. I dislike timing-based rotations, simply because it requires more of a fast-twitch mentality to absolutely maximize one’s timing. I consider myself much more “spreadsheet” than “FPS” if that makes sense. But it won’t be ruining the class, certainly. Like any other massive patch/expansion, we’ll likely start out a bit over-or-under-powered, but it will soon be rectified by tweaks.
The rest never bothered me in the first place, especially more intuitive theorycrafting.
One thing that I’ve consistently seen overlooked on Hunter sites:
Rogues and kitty druids are the other energy-using classes.
Rogues and kitty druids have a 1 second global cooldown.
Think about the implications of that. 3 instants in 3 seconds instead of 2. Along with high energy / high damage shots, we will almost certainly be gaining the capability to focus dump from full focus to empty to provide a big, very short DPS burst. From a practical standpoint, that means our alpha strike capability could go way up depending on what shots keep cooldowns.
That’s a handy capability for PvP. It’s also a handy for managing adds in PvE situations. Think bursting down Malygos sparks to drop them exactly where they should be (or keeping Maly from eating one if whoever is on spark duty fails). Knocking snobolds off of people more quickly in AC. Breaking out the NPC mage more quickly in Hodir. And so on and so on.
The decreased GCD and increase in energy regeneration from haste and talents are what keep me optimistic for the changes. I hope we get more buttons to press, and more decisions to make about energy conservation vs. burst DPS, etc.
I will be undecided about the changes until I see them first hand in Beta. The mana-Energy change is going to be VERY hard to balance out.
Its a step in the right direction. I just dont trust Blizzards ability to pull it of. I have been a Hunter for almost 5 yrs, can you blame me?
Ack, forgot to mention in my post above–I think it’s likely that hunters will switch from a 1.5 second GCD to a 1 second GCD with the overhaul…which leads to the analysis in my post.
FYI there is a new stat: Mastery. Basically mastery will boost whatever it is you do for how you are spec’d. The way they presented it is each talent tree will have things that passively are gained, if you go deep enough into the tree, you will gain the mastery passive. Mastery Stat is going to boost this passive.
The nice thing will be, if you respec, your gear mastery value will just give you what you need in that new tree, without having to regear to fit the role. For hunters, I imagine this will be less of a big deal, but it is going to be rockin’ for classes that have multiple potential roles.
Concerning the stat-simplification I totally agree that it is necessary. I think it was in one of the blizzard-blue-posts that someone mentioned that it is nearly impossible to calculate which item to favour without any helper-tools – I mean there probably aren’t more than a thousand people world-wide who actually found out themselves how 10 armor pen compares to 14 +crit. I personally use pawn for that. Of course there are still things like the hit-cap that require players to think and consider different situations (e.g. Draenei buff or not?).
Big hunter change – I can’t really say if I like the idea or not. I guess we can all agree that it will be a major change and will require some getting used to. I will probably miss being able to switch to uber-damage for a while until mana is gone but if this is replaced with great burst-damage for a very short time (as Jehos describes) then I’ll probably be quite happy. The change might or might not make playing a hunter a fair bit harder, which would mainly have two consequences: Good hunters stand out more
and general hunter reputation suffers 
… although it might solidify the whole “DKs are the new hunters”-theory and be good for our reputation after all!
Frost, your optimism is encouraging and you make some excellent and rational points. However, your comment about shot rotations having more reliance on weaving than blowing everything in sequence does warrant comment. I think you are totally correct but we all know that a shot rotation that does not follow priority results in a dps reduction.
If you go in now and weave shots in a non-priority sequence, your dps will be much less than your priority sequence.
This is where my main concern lays. Without the ability to front-load our rotations, dps will suffer. We do not want to be firing Steady when Chimera is available (as an aside, will Stings cost focus? Will Chimera have an extra focus cost when it refreshes Serpent Sting?) for example.
I think this may be the expansion I try to get into beta for just to test out the new system. I’m not looking forward to missing running new content with my friends and guild because I’m stuck at the dummies trying to figure out how to play again!
Euripides – I’m not sure what you mean by theorycrafting getting easier, specifically regarding rotations. My concern is that with different haste or energy regen talents you’ll hit those plateaus that can potentially change your rotations. Thus things like even the EAP for haste is highly variable.
Sure plugging your info into spreadsheets will be just as easy as it was before, but acutally doing the math will be more complicated because A) you have to figure in the energy cycle and B) the cycle will change (thus the best shots will change) based on your amount of energy regen.
That is much more complex than the current “assume you’ll never run out of mana and just use the highest dps shots regardless of cost” model – which in most situations is entirely true, give or take a mana pot.
I agree with Frost assumptions here.
There are still 4 things with focus that is bugging me however.
1) I’m worried about PvP, where we will not stand still for steady shot. Because having a nice rotation for raids is nice, but Blizzard already messed up early in the arena game by making hunters do too little PvP-damage. They fixed this later by giving us high-damage shots (with a long cooldown to compensate for raiders). Because mana is no issue in PvP, hunters knew they could alsways use the shots if they were of cooldown. But now with focus the times between cooldown are not long enough to get the shots ready again. I mean, else you won’t need steady for regen. When introducing focus they will hopefully make sure, they wont ‘mess up’ again nerfing hunter’s PvP wise …
2) I don’t like in this picture, the haste thing. Not so much because it will have plateaus as that is exactely how it is today also with haste. It will increase autoshot (as I expect it to still do then) but now it also just increases the wait time after your steady … untill you reach the next level where you can actually change a rotation. Frost of course has a point that sucks as it is now also.
But what I don’t like about haste is that it will regen focus. Why should it? I mean, we already have a regen talent called spirit? Sure, at this moment spirit isn’t doing anything for us, because as hunter’s we only have minute amounts and no hunter gear has it. But of your going to change pretty much all gear in the game from lvl 1 tot lvl 80 for hunter’s anyway, that is no excuse.
In case you find this weird, consider this: intelect. Now it is our mana-pool (and through talents some bonus AP). After focus, intellect is … well nothing, so could easily be replaced by spirit. (Or more easier let intellect regen focus, but intellect and focus have no meaningfull relationship conceptual wise).
3) Just as a side note. Why change it anyway? I mean, in general hunter’s never complained about mana. Sure, about mana specific issues, but no so much us using mana instead of let’s say energy/rage/etc. And also other classes, they want lots of stuff changed/nerfed in hunter’s, but I actually never heard them complain about mana? On the other hand, Blizzard has been unhappy about mana since day one. Seems, that some high-up-there developer has a ‘personal’ issue with mana.
4) What bugs me however the formost is this whole focus on mana-focus vs dps. Up to and including the first year of BC, hunter’s were more than cannon’s. I can still remember when we as hunter’s needed to do CC in 5 mans. And needed means wipe-prevention-needed. No tank-healer pair could hold the 4 mobs in e.g. Shattered Halls. You needed 1 CC and a often second too. As tanks progressed, you could then do with 3 and then suddenly later we were pure dps.
I do still remember when a blue square mark actually meant I had to freeze it, and not that it was 4th on the kill list
Now we are just cannons. Good cannons, but just that. This also means if our dps is low, we are worthless. In the early months of WotLK hunter’s did too low raid dps, and many groups ( at least on our realm) made no attempt to hide they prefer other classes in their raids then hunters. Blizzard acknowledge this, but hoped it would improve. For a great deal it did as we changed our playstile, but in the end they still increases our dps on ranged weapons to compensate.
I would therefore not for just fun have the other functions back, but also that we are less dependent on just nuking. I mean it is kind of fun having this green bar on top of recount, but on the other hand the days you were missed on a MC raid for e.g. your tranq shot were also nice
That all said, in the end we’ll probably be fine. Sure they’ll ‘screw up’ somewhere in the beginning because the game is just so complex, but they’ll fix that in the first months. So in the end hunter’s will still be nice to play I expect.
Armin: I agree with you on the cannons — but that’s more of an encounter design issue than a class design issure. The problem is we don’t need ccing or kiting at all for the most part.
Also note that in the early months of wrath hunter raid damage was broken tough — we were actually overpowered (BM). Then the nerf bat hit a couple times and we had to respec; however, never during that time was I not at the top of the damage meters in raids. Just required a lot of gold in respecs
The increase on ranged weapons is not to compensate for our dps being too low — but to compensate for the fact that they aren’t introducing new consumable ammo as raids get harder (which was how it worked in the past).
Its all a wait and see no point worrying until we see the cards on the table from blizzard its nice to speculate what might happen but don’t let it get to you. There is one question tho still on my mind who still uses Tranquilizing shot i find this does not affect bosses anymore in heroics and raids so i basically stopped using it and if you are using it ? for what purpose as i gave up on this shot . I remember it use to have a chance to stop bosses enrage and special magic attacks but i have not seen it work in a long time and basically took it off my action bar since it never seems to work it just says theres nothing to dispell , have i missed something please help any info would be appreciated.
Fradin, there are a few Naxx bosses where it works. But the effect is not much. The big enrages won’t be stopped and indeed too often it is ‘immume’. You can dispell a lot of stuff on ttrash though, but of course who cares …
Kind of funny, as it was a shot originally pretty much for MC (and a few bosses of BWL where it was usefull). During BC, theer were a few bosses where it worked, but no big stuff mentioning. Then in WotLK they suddenly changed the shot functionality so it has more *potential* uses … but then they ‘forgot’ to add actuall bosses where the potential could actually be used … Then why change it?
Fradin: Tranq shot has a few uses. Some heroic bosses — like Keristrasza in nexus enrages at 20% and can be tranqed.
Gluth in Molten Core – it was vital to tranq him back in early wrath, though we’re all so overgeared now it may not matter.
And now in Collesium TotC 10 and 25 man we have the Yeti at the end of Northrend beasts. If people fail to get out of the way of his charge he enrages, and MUST be tranq shotted. It’s nice because it lets us recover from a screw up and prevent a wipe.
So Tranquilizing shot has uses — they are just rare. And I think that’s how it should be. An occasional tool for maybe one boss per raid instance.
I actually love my tranq shot. Even in Bg’s it’s an amazing tool. I used to so often while leveling it was nearly a part of my rotation in certain areas. Mage and lock mobs with those annoying shields become cannon fodder after tranquilizing that armor off. I know In Naxx it was my sole duty as the only hunter in group to tranquilize Gluths enrage effect nearly every few seconds he buffed. I get suprized when other hunters tell me they didn’t even know what to use T shot for. Such an underrated skill.
I use Tranq on a number of bosses and it seems to work OK. The best examples I can think of are Skadi in UP and Commander Kolurg in Nexus. I never tried it on Keri but will the next time Nexus is the daily
Sure, I know, not hunter related, but keep in mind that ALOT of the classes are getting reworked. They mentioned that Mages are going to no longer regen mana off of Spirit (as a good example). At least you guys got some clarification.
Mages got hosed, as per norm. “Working as intended” makes me weep with joy.
Frost, what was that dps meter from?
Bahhhh….!
Why they want to change hunters….and not other classes that can do everythink(tank-heal-dps)…….we are pure DPSers…..thats only we can do….and always nerf….!!!
Blizzard have to deside and give to the game a certain route…..a lot of ppl is gonna reroll….or stop the game if Blizz fuck with characters…..
Nerf DKs……and palladins…….about 1 year+they are OP……and they can do everythink(exept heal DKs)
Wtf are we gonna do????Respec to raid buffers….and look our pet doing the DMG???
Really me and a lot of players will stop the game……Blizz should consider it and not touch characters…..or change the OP…….cause it will fail!
Cataclysm good or bad.?
I am looking forward to the “new” WoW.
I know that its still work in progress and that this page is just for Hunters.
But why is Horde +2 when it comes to Race and Class Combinations.?
But what I would like to know is if anyone knows anything about Worgen & Goblins Hunter Class race special abilities (link: Dwarf’s: The additional five skill levels to Gun skill)
I hope that in Cataclysm the leveling is more fun or if they make that you can start any Class att lvl 55 like DK, and perhaps make a Class history quest’s like with DK’s. Not going to be this time around but perhaps oneday or not.
Can you thank Frostheim tomuch
thanks m8
I know it makes me sound like a retard, but I can’t see me playing my hunter in Cata., I love hunters as it is, I can never see me rerolling and getting it to 80 because I love the way hunters feel, however something seems different. Spamming steady shot to get enough focus for 2 shots?..
When I watched Blizzcon on the internet, it sounded immense that they were getting rid of mana and AP, making agility the tits, however, when I think about it now, focus seems pointless..
Seems like a DK, Rogue or Warrior for me
Actually… all hybrid classes dps will be greatly nerfed… This mean no OP rets running around or no druid kitties doing wtf damage, so expect Rogue/hunter/mage/Lock to be at Numero uno position at all times..
Well, i feel that whit mana gone, hunters are going to be a more skilled class, because we gonna deal whit two kinds of management, proc timers/spells plus Focus gains/losses. But youre right Frostheim, its exciting and damm scary. And another thing, how are they gonna compensate the lack of ArP in gear when Cat comes, cause ArP is all over our gear.
if it works dont fix it, is my filosofy.I enjoy every moment with my hunter atm, and dont think it needs to be revamped to energy user.
and secondary i dont see Hunter just as pure DPS, we are the raids special task force..:)
Iv been playing a hunter since i first started WoW in 2005 when i was 10 and iv realized the class has gotten increasingly better thru the years but i also realize that more and more noobs are mking are class cuz they think its cool to have a pet or w.e.with the new focus thing i think its gonna be hard as hell to learn the class and i think its gonna take a crapload of patches to get it set right and it really was a unnecesarry change that tards brought on.iv also heard about having 3 active pets wich will make more and more noobs choose our class =/.in longterm i think cata is gonna suck horribly personally )=
(btw can someone tell me if the 3 active pets is true?)
The big question is will haste rating affect the global cooldown on hunters shots.
So focus will mean a nerf for hunters in PvP, since you have to use a lot abilities quickly…
So many haters and nay sayers!!! If you all think Blizzard is so incompetent why do you pay them every month? Listen if you’ve been playing hunters for 5 years and have only complaints about the class then you should welcome changes. If you’ve been playing 5 years and love everything about the class then don’t worry obviously Blizzard has taken care of you and will continue to do so. Is it gonna be strange? yes. Confusing? probably. Impossible to relearn? no way.
You may have to change your playstyle a bit but really thats nothing we havent done before. Honestly I and many of my WoW friends enjoy digging into our classes and understanding the mechanics and not just how things work but what makes them work just as much as the actual game play. Now I’m not saying that everyone should love theorycrafting and such but honestly if you are here, a little work understanding your class changes shouldnt be as daunting a task as some make it seem.
Has Uncle Blizzie gotten it all right? No, but this is an opportunity to really improve on our class. There are some very welcomed changes and some apparently cosmetic changes but in the end don’t let the prospect of change turn you immediately against the result. Deep breaths hunter brethren for this is the time in which we steel ourselves against the possibility of being stabled with the lowely and whining ret paladins. Adapt and overcome friends, your dues are eternal as is their reward.