Comments on: Balance and Broken http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/ A gathering place for WoW hunters who have paid their dues Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:32:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Aldaxhttp://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/#comment-5897 Aldax Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:37:25 +0000 http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/?p=2471#comment-5897 I wanted to share I have been following Armin's advice on every BG. I have been killing rogues like flies. Its been fun fun fun. What did I do? 1. Always team up. Fight within a group. 2. Look for the rogues. You see one. you mark him. You kill him, before anyone else! Your mates will love you for getting the sticky flies off them. 3. Always keep a flair up, and a trap. That keeps them at bay. + use the following add on, which is the best replacement for ICU/Personal Sentry. Must have for PvP. http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/spy.aspx Is it broken? Yes. Are there other classes broken? It seams so. MM hunters are killing mounted casters with silencing shot non-stop. The caster can do no shit about it. aldax I wanted to share I have been following Armin’s advice on every BG.
I have been killing rogues like flies. Its been fun fun fun.

What did I do?
1. Always team up. Fight within a group.
2. Look for the rogues. You see one. you mark him. You kill him, before anyone else! Your mates will love you for getting the sticky flies off them.
3. Always keep a flair up, and a trap. That keeps them at bay.

+ use the following add on, which is the best replacement for ICU/Personal Sentry. Must have for PvP. http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/spy.aspx

Is it broken? Yes. Are there other classes broken? It seams so. MM hunters are killing mounted casters with silencing shot non-stop. The caster can do no shit about it.
aldax

]]> By: Tandohttp://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/#comment-5587 Tando Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:15:37 +0000 http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/?p=2471#comment-5587 I've just got to say I've thought this same thing since I started doing battlegrounds 3 years ago. I’ve just got to say I’ve thought this same thing since I started doing battlegrounds 3 years ago.

]]> By: Yume - Skullcrusherhttp://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/#comment-5454 Yume - Skullcrusher Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:14:43 +0000 http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/?p=2471#comment-5454 The thing is, though, were not talking about taking away the rogues only weapon. We're asking for it to be replaced. I will admit, lore-wise rogues are supposed to sneak up and murder people. And stunning isnt even the issue here. The key word in stunlock is the 'lock" portion. How about instead of locking a person down with stuns, give the rogue a higher dodge rate? Or maybe keep the stuns, just change the effects. No class should ever get away with zero damage when fighting a class of equal level. These are just suggestions, mind you, but I'm sure Bizzard could come up with more creative ones. My point is, removing stunlock, if done properly by Blizzard, wont break any of the stunlocking classes. Also, grinding PvP gear to PvP? Great. Grinding PvP gear just so rogues cant stunlock you to death? Now THATS a bit far. The thing is, though, were not talking about taking away the rogues only weapon. We’re asking for it to be replaced. I will admit, lore-wise rogues are supposed to sneak up and murder people. And stunning isnt even the issue here. The key word in stunlock is the ‘lock” portion. How about instead of locking a person down with stuns, give the rogue a higher dodge rate? Or maybe keep the stuns, just change the effects. No class should ever get away with zero damage when fighting a class of equal level. These are just suggestions, mind you, but I’m sure Bizzard could come up with more creative ones.

My point is, removing stunlock, if done properly by Blizzard, wont break any of the stunlocking classes.

Also, grinding PvP gear to PvP? Great. Grinding PvP gear just so rogues cant stunlock you to death? Now THATS a bit far.

]]> By: Arminhttp://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/#comment-5364 Armin Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:51:10 +0000 http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/?p=2471#comment-5364 Yume, has a point there: ganking rogues in a PvP realm. OK, but to change the rogues' ability just for that is a bit far I guess ... What people still miss (Glad to see the post updated ;-)), is that if you take away the rogue's stun, you take away the pretty much only weapon they have. In terms of survivability they are toast then with only leather, low health and no shields. In terms of dps, they will be completeley chanceless against any warrior or even many tanks as the delta is just too small compared to the health/armor delta. Especially if the other got a good defense cap. The whole concept is to sneek up to you , stun you and kill you *without you then having a chance*. If you had a chance, well, they would be seriously unbalanced as they would suck in PvP. During a raid, you get stunned, feared, etc also all the time. And often a lot longer than 12 secs. And there you can die as well during this time. No difference IMHO. Again role a rogue and you'll see that the grass might be greener over there, but the dog is also a lot meaner ;-) That said, if you regear, respec and mostly change tactics, you do have a chance when stunned. Most of the time one-on-one they still win, just as most of the time when I see them first, I win. But, it is definitly not the done case as some people think. Especially if got teammates to back you up. Any decent healer can easily keep you up in a stunlock. No sweat for them. But also solo, many time when riding my mount acrosss AV, I get ganked by a stealth rogue. And stunlock or not, it ain't always them getting the insignia ... ;-) Yume, has a point there: ganking rogues in a PvP realm. OK, but to change the rogues’ ability just for that is a bit far I guess …

What people still miss (Glad to see the post updated ;-) ), is that if you take away the rogue’s stun, you take away the pretty much only weapon they have. In terms of survivability they are toast then with only leather, low health and no shields. In terms of dps, they will be completeley chanceless against any warrior or even many tanks as the delta is just too small compared to the health/armor delta. Especially if the other got a good defense cap.

The whole concept is to sneek up to you , stun you and kill you *without you then having a chance*. If you had a chance, well, they would be seriously unbalanced as they would suck in PvP.

During a raid, you get stunned, feared, etc also all the time. And often a lot longer than 12 secs. And there you can die as well during this time. No difference IMHO.

Again role a rogue and you’ll see that the grass might be greener over there, but the dog is also a lot meaner ;-)

That said, if you regear, respec and mostly change tactics, you do have a chance when stunned. Most of the time one-on-one they still win, just as most of the time when I see them first, I win. But, it is definitly not the done case as some people think. Especially if got teammates to back you up. Any decent healer can easily keep you up in a stunlock. No sweat for them.

But also solo, many time when riding my mount acrosss AV, I get ganked by a stealth rogue. And stunlock or not, it ain’t always them getting the insignia … ;-)

]]> By: Yume - Skullcrusherhttp://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/#comment-5360 Yume - Skullcrusher Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:54:30 +0000 http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/?p=2471#comment-5360 I'm certainly not looking to make everyone even. That would be boring. As I said, I think alot of people are seeing this post as a direct attack on rogues, when really its the stunlock mechanic that is the focus. Like I said, I really dont care one bit if a rogue kills me singlehandedly. I just dont want it to be so degrading. I want the satisfaction that I managed to land a few hits on him before he got me. Its the pride that you get when you stand up to a bully and give him a black eye, even though he beat you into the pavement, rather than the shame of just laying down and taking. I’m certainly not looking to make everyone even. That would be boring. As I said, I think alot of people are seeing this post as a direct attack on rogues, when really its the stunlock mechanic that is the focus. Like I said, I really dont care one bit if a rogue kills me singlehandedly. I just dont want it to be so degrading. I want the satisfaction that I managed to land a few hits on him before he got me. Its the pride that you get when you stand up to a bully and give him a black eye, even though he beat you into the pavement, rather than the shame of just laying down and taking.

]]> By: Taghttp://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/#comment-5359 Tag Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:55:28 +0000 http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/?p=2471#comment-5359 Yume: Your last post highlights one of the reasons that WoW is so incredibly popular, but at the same time next to impossible to balance. There are so many classes and so many "games within the game" that lots of people who like different aspects can come and find something they can enjoy in WoW. At the same time though, it's simply not possible to make every class even in every type of situation. The moment you try to balance a class for arena, it becomes overpowered or underpowered in BG. If you try to balance classes in BG, they become imbalanced at raiding or arena. Yume: Your last post highlights one of the reasons that WoW is so incredibly popular, but at the same time next to impossible to balance. There are so many classes and so many “games within the game” that lots of people who like different aspects can come and find something they can enjoy in WoW.

At the same time though, it’s simply not possible to make every class even in every type of situation. The moment you try to balance a class for arena, it becomes overpowered or underpowered in BG. If you try to balance classes in BG, they become imbalanced at raiding or arena.

]]> By: Battlemaidhttp://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/#comment-5355 Battlemaid Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:28:55 +0000 http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/?p=2471#comment-5355 @Flatulantjoe No need to insult the class. Same could be said to 2 or 3 Elemental Shammies grouping and downing you in 2 sec with their lightning strikes. Don't solo them... group'up! @Flatulantjoe

No need to insult the class. Same could be said to 2 or 3 Elemental Shammies grouping and downing you in 2 sec with their lightning strikes. Don’t solo them… group’up!

]]> By: Battlemaidhttp://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/#comment-5354 Battlemaid Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:08:51 +0000 http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/?p=2471#comment-5354 Just my two cents - My main is a Rogue (booooouuuuu) and I have done a lot (fun) of PvP with it. And @Armin is absolutely right. The dynamics in Pvp are completely different than in PvE... but you already know that. It's a team effort. If you enter Bg's thinking you can solo every class like they were regular mobs then your wrong. Pvp is all about collaboration between classes. Just role a Rogue and see how frustrating it is to be feared X number of times by locks while they cast every DOTs they have on you...lol And yes, on 1-1, if the Rogue attacks 1st then your chances to survive have diminished greatly., but not completely. I have been downed but Hunters before. But again, PvP "wised" healers will have you on radar and should/will save your stunned butt. But again, people enter BG's and don't have any idea of their role or what to do. I have seen so many times DPS'ers focusing on tanks instead of downing the healers 1st... Anyways, I don't think it's "Broken". From a PvE point of view it might... but again... if you die to a Rogue in PvP then blame your healers/teammates for not coming to help. Just my two cents –

My main is a Rogue (booooouuuuu) and I have done a lot (fun) of PvP with it. And @Armin is absolutely right. The dynamics in Pvp are completely different than in PvE… but you already know that.

It’s a team effort. If you enter Bg’s thinking you can solo every class like they were regular mobs then your wrong. Pvp is all about collaboration between classes. Just role a Rogue and see how frustrating it is to be feared X number of times by locks while they cast every DOTs they have on you…lol

And yes, on 1-1, if the Rogue attacks 1st then your chances to survive have diminished greatly., but not completely. I have been downed but Hunters before. But again, PvP “wised” healers will have you on radar and should/will save your stunned butt.

But again, people enter BG’s and don’t have any idea of their role or what to do. I have seen so many times DPS’ers focusing on tanks instead of downing the healers 1st…

Anyways, I don’t think it’s “Broken”. From a PvE point of view it might… but again… if you die to a Rogue in PvP then blame your healers/teammates for not coming to help.

]]> By: Flatulantjoehttp://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/#comment-5353 Flatulantjoe Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:58:11 +0000 http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/?p=2471#comment-5353 i don't care about gear and strat to kill a rogue...those slimy bastards are annoying and need to be nerfed in my opinion. the latest trend on my server and i don't know if this is true for other servers but in BGs 2 or 3 rogues will team up and roam together destroying and annoying everything in their path. undead rogues are by far the most frusterating things in this game to me. i refuse to step into BGs because of that class. i don’t care about gear and strat to kill a rogue…those slimy bastards are annoying and need to be nerfed in my opinion. the latest trend on my server and i don’t know if this is true for other servers but in BGs 2 or 3 rogues will team up and roam together destroying and annoying everything in their path. undead rogues are by far the most frusterating things in this game to me. i refuse to step into BGs because of that class.

]]> By: Yume - Skullcrusherhttp://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/08/balance-and-broken/#comment-5351 Yume - Skullcrusher Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:41:11 +0000 http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/?p=2471#comment-5351 Armin (& arena posters): Thats all well and fine in arena combat, where teamwork is key. But out in the field when your by your lonesome, its just flat out wrong the way they can sneak up and stunlock you. It's not even the fact that I'm going to die. I can live with that. I chose a pvp server, I'm prepared to die. But not without as fight. I want the CHANCE to win, and stunlocking robs people of that chance. I dont think the point of the post is to say that we should kill rogues 100% of the time, just that stunlocking is a broken mechanic that weighs the odds in 1v1 in the rogues favor. Armin (& arena posters): Thats all well and fine in arena combat, where teamwork is key.

But out in the field when your by your lonesome, its just flat out wrong the way they can sneak up and stunlock you. It’s not even the fact that I’m going to die. I can live with that. I chose a pvp server, I’m prepared to die. But not without as fight. I want the CHANCE to win, and stunlocking robs people of that chance.

I dont think the point of the post is to say that we should kill rogues 100% of the time, just that stunlocking is a broken mechanic that weighs the odds in 1v1 in the rogues favor.

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