Hi everyone. Arthemystia here, a devoted dues-payer and follower of the WHU. I came to Frost recently with an offer to collect data on pet tanking for him, since I do a fair amount of tanking. He graciously accepted, and also allowed me to write some guest articles.
This will be the first of several installments on pet tanking, with a specific emphasis on Northrend heroics. The articles are mine, but for those suspicious of anyone not named Arust or Frost, everything here was reviewed by Frostheim. Anything fancy, from pictures to bold text, is also Frost since I’m new to the blog-writing mechanics on the WHU.
Pet Tanking Heroics
People won’t believe you. They’ll laugh when you suggest that you want to tank, say, heroic Nexus. And not just in PUGs. I’ve had guildies join my tanking groups “just to see it fail.” It’s an uphill battle.
But it can be done.
It’s hard, and requires a fair amount of preparation and a difference skill set than we hunters are used to. But yes, you can pet tank Northrend heroics. I’ve personally tanked heroic UK and heroic DTK , and have even pet off-tanked Naxx. And while there is obviously a limit to our tanking (don’t take it to Ulduar, for example), most or all heroic 5 man instances should be tankable.
Future installments will include which pet to use for tanking, spec, gear, enchants, gems, glyphs, rotation, and more. Today we’ll discuss general strategies for tanking, and solutions to common problems encountered while tanking.
Basics
The mechanics of tanking are similar to soloing, but soloing is focused on pet health and overall dps. Extreme soloing focuses on pet damage mitigation and healing. But with tanking, our pet’s health, mitigation, and aggro are the only considerations. We will still dps more than a “normal” tank, but it is a secondary purpose.
Groups
First, start slow. Do some extreme soloing work. Or 2-man a regular difficulty instance with a friend. Or tank some Northrend dungeons in normal mode first. Convince your guildmates that you can do it.
Second, be the leader. We’re used to sitting back, being told by the MT what target to kill, and rocking dps meters. This is a different world. Make sure everyone is focused on the correct target sequences so that you can maintain aggro. Coordinate boss fights, even if the strategies fail. I usually consult with tanks in my guild before running an instance to pick their brains. Chances are, there’s something you didn’t know about in a boss fight, even if it’s an instance you’ve done dozens of times.
Third, make sure others in your group are helping. Other hunters? They need to be misdirecting to your pet. A Priest? Make sure he’s casting Fade. It’s possible to hold aggro off of very good dps without these kinds of things, but every little bit helps.
Fourth, talk to your group beforehand. Run down a list of what they need to know about running in a group with a pet doing their tanking, including:
- The pet is not as good as holding aggro as a geared tank. Everyone should use their threat-reduction abilities at every opportunity. They should watch their threat on Omen.
- They will need to wait a solid 5 seconds or so before starting to dps on a pull.
- They must single target dps unless explicitly told otherwise by you. You will mark each kill target so they’re attacking the same thing as the pet.
- Other hunters should MD to your pet at every opportunity.
- The overall pace of the instance will be slower. You will pause between each pull to wait for pet cooldowns and recover your own mana.
- Healers should be told that the pet just has less health than a normal tank, and while the pet increases the effect of heals received, there’s just a smaller margin of error. Faster small heals are better than slower big heals. Priest shields are better still.
Heals
We can get our pet’s armor up fairly high relative to “normal” heroic-geared tanks. But a pet’s hit points will be lower than a normal tank regardless of our gear and spec, and of course our pet will have less avoidance, meaning he’ll take more damage. Stamina buffs are incredibly useful, and you should supplement your gear with stamina-heavy items.
If you have a choice, Discipline Priests are wildly useful healers for their damage mitigation talents. They can also shield your pet instead of heal him during the initial pull, which doesn’t create threat and makes the pull easier. Any heal class should be able to keep your pet up consistently though.
Aggro
The dps in your group needs to be using their threat-drops, and they need to single target dps as much as possible. Without threat mitigation, I’ve held aggro on a single target up to about 3K dps. As we know, many classes can do more than that. But with threat reduced as needed, an intelligent group shouldn’t have any more of a problem than with a normal tank.
Mana:
While we can nerf our dps using Aspect of the Viper and not suffer immediate consequences, our pet needs to stay in Aspect of the Beast to maintain aggro. Stay out of Viper whenever possible. To make this possible, bring lots of consumables to replenish your mana, and stay topped up whenever possible. Or wait until Viper regenerates your mana between pulls before pulling again. Remember — when pet tanking a heroic, you’re pace will probably be slower than with a player tank. It’s okay if you need a bit of a mana break between each pull. You aren’t chain pulling here.
Pulling:
Say you’re in heroic UK. You come to the second pull of the instance, with mobs standing around giant anvils. There’s 4 of them in the upcoming pull. You send your pet in, load up misdirection, fire multi-shot. Suddenly, one of them runs straight at your healer and one-shots him. Another runs toward your AOE-happy Warlock. You get Intervene and Taunt going, but it’s too late. Your group wipes. And it’s your fault. Ok, so maybe the Warlock deserved it for AoE’ing too soon. But it’s still your fault.
Future installments will talk more about rotation, but your initial aggro is going to come from the pet’s thunderstomp and you casting misdirection + Multi-Shot. And the trickiest pulls will be the ones where you can’t cover everyone with Multi-Shot, and your pet’s initial Thunderstomp isn’t wide enough to reach all of the targets. There’s multiple ways around this. Have the pet pull, and wait for the mobs to group together around him before firing Multi-Shot. Or send him after 2 targets, while you fire your MD Multi at two others outside of Thunderstomp distance.
Also be aware of adds that might be summoned. Save your MD and Taunt for these pulls whenever possible. And have a definite kill sequence, and make sure your group sticks to it. Because if dps is focused on a different target than your pet, they WILL pull aggro. Even with thunderstomp, your pet is really just holding aggro against dpsers on one target. The rest he’s just holding aggro against healer threat.
Threat:
A nice way to increase initial threat is to pop Bestial Wrath just before your pet makes a pull. That way, the damage multiplier from BW will apply to the initial thunderstomp, thus increasing threat (and thunderstomp does 2.5 times it’s damage in threat, note). Thanks to Frost for contributing this little gem, which I hadn’t thought of.
And unlike dps where we sometimes want to wait for a bloodlust or <20% on a boss, using your cooldowns early is generally advisable while tanking because it helps establish threat. This would include BW, Kill Command, and any trinkets. The exception to this rule is Taunt, which should be controlled manually either for aggro drops from bosses or situations where you’ve lost aggro. Shell Shield would also be an exception if you’re using a Turtle, but you shouldn’t be except in specific circumstances.
Conclusion:
There will be exceptions to these rules, as well as to those that will be laid out in future tanking articles. I’ll try to cover some of them, but as we already know, a lot of WoW is being able to adapt.
But it’s fun to prove people wrong, and do something that our class isn’t traditionally designed for. And not only that, but to do it well. Or it can be a nice option for your guildies if you lack numerous tanks willing to run heroics. My Ulduar group still laughs at me about this occasionally, but I’ve made believers out of several newly-dinged 80′s and alts who need runs through instances but can’t find groups easily. And there’s also nothing like tanking an instance AND being top dps. Rare, but possible.
Not everyone aspires to tanking, just like not everyone gets a kick out of extreme soloing, PvP, or raiding. But for those that do, this should be a nice intro to it. My thanks to Frost for opening the WHU to this, and you can expect new installments in this series soon. Next up is pet choice.

My epic thanks to Frost for allowing this to happen, and for making the post look pretty. I’ve done my homework to ensure that this and future guides can be useful to any aspiring tank, but Frost is the one who green-lighted it, and helped me refine the guides for the WHU.
Notes:
A few of the suggestions are purely to be cautious. I’ve had my group blitz the target after only an initial thunderstomp and MD, and been able to hold aggro just fine. Doing enough dps without raid buffs to pull aggro off a pet isn’t as easy as it may seem. 5 seconds is nice, but not always needed. Gauge your pulls as necessary.
AoE’s are much more important to avoid, however. Secondary targets will only have enough aggro to stay on the pet if no one is attacking them. Even incidental melee AoE attacks have a tendency to pull. So that advice is much less a suggestion, more a necessity.
Hopefully healing Priests should be able to stay below your pet’s aggro without any extraordinary measures, but Fade only reduces a Priest’s threat for a few seconds. After that, the Priest’s threat is back to its full value.
Every little bit helps, Ard.
*Gobsmacked* I am… breathless! What sort of gear are you wearing to do this?
Yes what lvl gear are you rocking to do this? I have mostly lvl 187 gear with a few lvl 200 pcs. Can someone like myself do this? Thanks
A gear guide is forthcoming, Jackdaw, which will go into a lot more detail about it.
I hesitate to put an ilvl on when tanking is possible. Thing is, raid gear is NOT tanking gear. I change out about half of my gear for new pieces when I tank. So even with a high gear level, chances are there will be some work to do, especially since a few awesome tanking pieces are below even 187′s. Occasionally there’s overlap though, which helps (like two pieces of t7 for the set bonus).
But the good news is, a lot of good tank gear is available even if you don’t raid regularly, although it certainly helps. I don’t know what Frost’s time table is, but I have most of the guides already completed, so within a couple weeks we should see a lot more of them. I’ll hold off on saying more until the gear guide is up.
What is your advice on how to spec both the Hunter and the Pet? I assume your specs will need to be adjusted with the goal of pet survivability rather than pure DPS in the BM tree. Does this mean points in Great Resistance? Can it survive without Last Stand? If you move points out of Cobra Reflexes, for example, threat is going to take a nosedive. What about pet choice; is a Worm going to be preferable to a Bear for bosses but not trash? What about glyphs? Is this the opportunity for Possessed Strength to shine? How much healing should the Hunter be doing if there is a dedicated healer? This really got me thinking and I’d like to see more.
…all topics that will be covered in coming guides, Boz. I’d answer a few of those, but it would be at the expense of a longer analysis that will help understand the reasoning behind the decisions. So you’ll just need a bit of patience. Glad you’re interested, though.
Speccing yourself and your pet is going to be a lot more tricky than extreme soloing.
Sure the extreme solo build guarantees maximum survivability, but when the unarmed rogue / wanding caster are pulling aggro your group is going to murder you for wasting their time.
Interesting I must say but I think you are exaggerating. You say we can do it well but from what I have read I would not say that, if the dps must wait 5 sec, can’t really AoE and add all other thing I would at best call it mediocre and probably bad. Sure it sounds like a fun thing but the work that must be done is imo not worth the reward and to find people that would do it is probably allso a pain, add to into the mix that heroics will take like the double time and everything
UniQ: much like extreme soloing — heroic pet tanking is something that you are going to do primarily for the challenge.
However, I would also argue that a skilled hunter pet tanker is a better tank than your typical PUG tank. I think hunter pet tanking will be a *whole* lot more interesting once patch 3.2 comes out and we’re suddenly able to get badges of conquest from heroics. Heroics will be happening constantly.
What? Can’t find a tank? No problem, I’m a hunter, I got you covered!
I wouldn’t say it’s a better option than the typical pug tank, but it certainly is a better option than some.
I have on more than one occasion swapped into BM and pet tanked out the second half of a dungeon much to the chagrin of fail-tank.
Yeah, to be fair, you’d much rather have a good regular tank. But I’ve PUG’d some awful tanks before, geared or not, and can definitely say that my pet’s a step up from them.
As frost said, it’s more a novelty than a necessity. We’re a dps class, and that should be our main focus. But this can be a fun way to use your off-spec, and might also provide a valuable service to your guild.
And yes, post-3.2 I plan on running chain heroics with my guild as a tank. 3.2 will also improve pet dps substantially, which will make tanking even better. I can hold aggro comfortably off of most dps even now, so after the patch I look forward to even less problems.
Great article Arthemystia
Great to learn that we can cover other roles than pure dps – looking forward to the next ones from you.
Love the post !!!, I have been pet tanking outland heroics and normal Northrend Instances for something different I find it a really good challenge as i like to push my hunter and find its outer limits but i have always had problems with heroics in Northrend as the bosses get critical hits on your pet as you can not defense cap them. Making it hard for the healer to keep your pet up even with mend pet on as well, I have been working on a worm and bear as a pet tank which i find the worm works really well against multi targets but has a problem with the damage it gets. You have my full atention on this one and can not wait to see what you have to say next as tanking is fun and it blows the other members of the party away when you pull it off i guess i want to see how far i can push my hunter and what he can do !!!. Man this site rocks and i love the ideas lets show those other classes what a real hunter can do !!!!.
Whoo hoo Finally my pvp gear is useful!! What about a group of say 5 hunters? I am thinking of 2 Beast Masters, and the rest a mix of Survival and Marksman. Would that be feasable?
Sorry to say Vasc, 5 hunters can’t do heroics. Each hunter can only heal their own pet, and that’s not enough healing for any pull. Just imagine if you walked into heroic UK with a regular tank and were using frostweave bandages to heal him. It’s kinda like that.
Since Hunters can solo regular difficulty Northrend instances (see Frost’s extreme soloing posts for more), I’d imagine that 5 hunters could do the higher-end instances on normal difficulty. But that’s about it.
Fradin:
Not being defense capped does stink, though we can get the crit rate down fairly low from pet spec. If resilience ends up transferring for PvE, we actually CAN defense cap our pets. But it looks like Blizz only wants it for PvP, so we’ll have to settle for stacking stamina.
@Arthemystia
“Sorry to say Vasc, 5 hunters can’t do heroics. ”
I guess you missed this entry: http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/06/great-hunter-race/.
I look forward to the upcoming pet tanking guides! In addition to the questions I raised already, I’d be interested to hear waht mods would be useful/needed.
Cheers,
Boz
Boz, that race is for regular difficulty UK, not heroic.
It’s good to aim high, mind you. But within reason.
@Arthemystia
Never you mind those nit-picky details – heroic, non-heroic, whatever – and get back to writing those guides!
Such pity that all that work you have done will remain pure theory for we will never find a group that is willing to cooperate and go at slow pace. I mean i have seen people dropping groups with normal (and decent) tanks just because they thought it wasnt going quick enough, not to mention the fact that pet tanking requiers a lot of effort from the rest of the group. Alas
Ah you can also use volley as each second only takes 1 *charge* or md to pull 4 or more mobs.
Another hunter in my guild and I have been trying out some extreme solo’ing builds, I’ll have to direct him to this post. Man are my guild mates going to laugh at me when i apporach them with this xD
Alamae: Sorry to hear you think so. Each time I’ve been a tank, it’s been when no others are around, and the group is grateful for it. Pet tanking, as before, is a novelty and not a first option. But it more than possible to finish, say, UK in maybe an extra 15 minutes more than it would have been otherwise, or more if you wipe. But not so long that it should put off group members.
Purp: I initially got through the “are you serious?!” questions by doing “nostalgia runs” of BC stuff with guildies, and coaxing them into letting me tanking. Once they saw that I could hold aggro off of well-geared dps, they were impressed enough to let me try Northrend heroics.
My guild mates have already seen me tank normal instances up in Northrend and i even got the thumbs up from the healer and party so i can’t see that being a problem if your guild mates want to run and theres no tank I am sure that they would prefer to run with a pet tank than not run at all. I did have some people say what your tanking with a pet and laugh at me too but once they saw the action and what i could do they were impressed .
NEWS!
Frost and I have more research to do before the pet choice guide comes out. Turns out it’s not as clear cut as either of us thought. Science, however, is our friend, so we’ll get to the bottom of it soon.
So the pet choice guide is getting bumped back. We’ll probably do spec next instead.
No reason to choose one particular pet over another. With Call Stabled Pet you could easily use a bear or Croc for the trash and group pulls in part of the instance and swap to a Worm with different spec or similar single-target tank for the remainder. You are certainly going to spec a single-target tank different than a multi-target tank, right?
Ugh; I wish this site had a forum; so many newbie questions in my head!
BOZ all you questions will be answered i am sure this site rocks you just need to be patient and wait for some more testing as there is nothing posted here until its tried and tested and up to Frosts standard which is always great that way you dont get false info !.
@Fradin – I know; I’m just excited at finding this new resource (thanks Vaellix). Having just hit 80 recently, I’m learning a whole new game, and it’s amazing how the internet has so much information that it can be tough to find relevant information given how mechanics change with each patch.
This seems a relevant place to post this:
As of writing this first article, I had tanked heroic UK and DTK. Since then I’ve added heroic Nexus and recently 2-manning regular UP. The latter may seem like one of Frost’s soloing and/or hunter-duo things, but you need a dedicated healer for it, and will definitely need a croc or bear instead of a turtle. It’s much more a tank challenge than a soloing challenge. Skadi the Ruthless in particular (the one you throw spears at) is as difficult to 2-man as anything I’ve ever done in WoW.
In any case, I mention it because if you can’t get a group of 5 guildies together for your heroic tanking, but still want to try stuff out, regular UP is a unique challenge. And you only need a healer buddy to do it (preferably a pally, for reasons I may be writing about in future articles). I’d imagine that there’s Outlands heroics that offer similar 2-man challenges, but I haven’t yet figured out what the threshold is for “difficult without being impossible” in Outlands since the lower ones I’ve run (Ramps, BF) aren’t much of a challenge (heroic Ramps is solo-able, for example, and BF might be as well).
Awesome to see another hunter pet-tanker.
Think Scorpid Sting should become a part of the rotation here?
That’s actually a decent idea. With the loss in dps, I wonder how much benefit it will have overall, because my gut reaction is to think that if a healer can’t keep a pet tank up anyway, an additional 3% miss rate won’t change much, and killing things faster also helps reduce damage (indirectly of course). But you may be onto something there.
There aren’t plans for a Tanking Rotation article (it’s basically the BM dps rotation with MD and Intimidate thrown in), but I’ll try this out and mention my results in a future article if it turns out to have a positive benefit.
Just to throw it out there, does anyone know if there’s anything this doesn’t stack with? Ergo, if an {insert class} is in your group, they should be applying it instead of the Hunter. And are bosses potentially immune to it? Though I plan on finding out that for myself. Either way, thanks.
Only problem with that is you can’t use Serpent Sting, however if your main job is tanking, then that wouldn’t be such a concern. Seems to be a trade off, and I guess it would depend on your situation and/or group make-up. I have been using it instead of Serpent Sting, but I couldn’t tell you the difference it made. I was still pulling 2.5K+ DPS, so it seemed to be a fine rotation to have it in there instead of Serpent.
I decided to try this pet tanking out with my polar bear, so me and a disc priest went into ZG to farm for the 2 mounts that drop there. I must say, I was extremely impressed with the way the bear was holding aggro. We then hit up Reg UK, and cleared up through the first boss with little to no problem. Lots of fun.
A lot of people are surprised with the aggro their pet can hold in a tanking build. 3.2 helped us immensely as well.
And no, we’re not concerned with dps. It’s nice to do dps as a tank (we’ll have more than most) but tanking is our first and usually only concern. As soon as I get a new tanking foray in, I’ll be crunching numbers to see exactly what we’re gaining and losing by switching Scorpid and Serpent. Expect to see the results at some point.
Hiya guys, i read through all of this and i want to know if a hunters pet is suitable for tanking or is it a bit pointless and a joke? As i don’t do raids yet and do mainly quests and love my heroics, is this the spec for me ?
Sry guys, but what is the best tank pet for heroics?
Doom – The links to various tanking articles here:
http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/category/pet-tanking/
…will tell you everything you need to know.
Hunters are primarily a dps class, and since you mainly quest and run heroics, you would probably be better off with a SV dps spec. You won’t be called on to tank very often, and it would be hard without the right gear set. That said, it can be a fun way to use your off-spec in certain situations.
Pet tanking isn’t a joke though. We can be very proficient as heroic tanks, and marginally useful in low level raids.
i would like to see tha pet tanking gear guide cause i am debating on just making my pvp gear my tanking set with the exception for 2 pieces for t7.5 and my brewfest trinkets would like ur advice on wut to use gear wise
Wolf – http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/07/pet-tanking-gear-chants/
…the WHU tanking gear guide. After the hit and resilience caps, judging AP vs. Stam. is an inexact science. A lot will depend on what is more of an issue for you while tanking: health or threat.
But in general your PvP set with those modifications sounds fine for tanking.
Loving the new stats for pets from Patch 3.3. 100% resil of master, Culling the Herd, the Avoidence. This is going to be great for Tanking and “EXTREME” Soloing.
)
OH YEA!!! Almost forgot to mention the new MD. This is going to help out greatly with Aggro on large Mobs.
Send Pet….MD….VOLLEY THREAT!!!!
LOL Nice
yeh but good luck pugging as a tank – impossible. 3.3 = pug hunter tanks are dead.
I actually have a post coming up soon about tanking in 3.3. In general you probably shouldn’t be trying to PuG as a tank anyway. Much easier to have incredulous PuG’s who will do nothing but contribute toward wipes and be angry at you for even attempting it. I’ve tanked with PuGs before, but it’s very seldom. 99% of my tanking is in-guild, with people who are both aware of my abilities and forgiving of my mistakes as a tank.
But yes, I was upset that we can’t queue as a tank.
/target Blizzard
/shakefist
Thanks for all the good info , copied it to the T and in my first (H) my pet had 32k health and 22.5k armor , held aggro well , mobs are harder then single bosses. I had alot of fun , thanks again. =)
Glad to hear it!
Hey,
Thanks for the great guides.
Can a Hunter solo ToC 5-man normal mode bosses without significant work for it?
Tanking isn’t soloing. I’m really glad you enjoy my tanking guides, but if you’re trying to do something like that, I’d recommend Frost’s extreme soloing guides here on the WHU.
http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/category/extreme-soloing/
Just as a guess though, though, I doubt ToC5 (regular) is soloable. Too much group damage, which would be hard to keep yourself up. The “without significant work” part is the other one that isn’t likely. High-end soloing usually requires some t5 or very specialized gear, and a bit of practice. But either way, good luck!
I have a now 36 hunter. A couple of levels ago, I was doing a random and for whatever reason the Tank left us in the middle of it. One of the dps’s suggested we use my pet to tank. I was a bit reluctant, but they talked me into it. Everyone was very patient with the pace and needless to say, we finished the instance. I’ve since learned to use my pet more as a tank now for soloing. It was a great learning experience to say the least. (Yes, i’m pretty new at this game yet.) So I found this article quite intriguing. I’ll be checking back often to get tips. Maybe by the time I hit 80, I’ll be very proficient with it . Thank you for it.
I’ve only tried this once, in Halls of Stone I broke out Kalypso (my croc) to help tank the onslaught on the steps. I was laying traps like mad, volleying and getting Kalypso to pull as much aggro as I could on the guys that got passed the tank. The tank died but we survived, in part because of my croc. It was fun but I don’t think I would want to do a whole instance. I gladly switched back to my wolf right after that part. Hats off to those that can do this …