- Hunter’s Mark: The ranged attack power bonus from this ability has been increased from 300 to 500.
- Master Marksman: This talent now also decreases the cost of Aimed Shot and Chimera Shot by 5/10/15/20/25%.
The next patch is bringing another nice little hunter buff, this one across the board in the form of a Hunter’s Mark buff of 200 ap. Very nice! They’re also giving another little bump to MM hunter mana efficiency.
We’ve already talked about how at very high gear levels MM hunters may actually pass SV by in raid dps. With both of these buffs favoring MM hunters over any others, I wonder if we aren’t going to see that line change even earlier.
This Hunter’s Mark increase definitely makes the MM Improved Hunter’s Mark talent more attractive than ever, and a 25% reduction is mana cost of a couple of key shots is a pleasant boost. I’ll be very curious to see how much of a difference this makes in their efficiency.
As Arust and I have been discussing and testing various MM builds endlessly lately, I’ve been thinking about MM a lot, and their horrible, horrible mana situation. Right now they have three separate talents to improve their mana usage — and the problem is that you usually have to sacrifice dps to take these talents. Well the problem is also that the talents generally suck at mana efficiency too.
Efficiency reduces the mana cost of all shots by 3%/talent point. This is horribly expensive. When I’m testing MM on the target dummy, I run out of mana in about a minute. Each rank of Efficiency will give me an extra 1.8 seconds of shooting time. At the full five ranks the decrease is nice — but then I’m sacrificing 5 talent points. At that dps loss, you’re better just going into viper a few shots earlier.
Improved Steady Shot suffers a similar problem, though it does give a marginal dps nod as well. But 15% proc chance on Steady Shot is horrible. Of all the shots in the MM rotation, steady is the last one that you’re going to hit. I set up a power aura warning for when this procced so I could get a feel for it, and found that it procced for me around once per minute. Sometimes twice. That is neither a very effective mana efficient talent, nor a good dps talent.
Rapid Recuperation, I should note, is quite nice. The one winner of the MM mana talents.
But a flat reduction of aimed shot and Chimera Shot – and built on top of a dps talent that you’re going to take anyway – now that’s the way to do it. I still think that MM is going to be the mana hog of the specs by a considerable margin, but that’s a tradeoff we’re willing to make for the top dps spec, no?
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Member
Frost, I’ve seen in 25 man naxx the increase on certain Hunters in MM over Survival, sometimes reaching almost 4k dps. I wonder if there is an available example on how to spec for it.
Admin
If we’re just talking Naxx in Naxx gear, SV is the better dps spec atm. For reference I generally pull around 4.6k overall, spiking up to 5.5k on bosses like patchwerk. And I don’t even have the epic gear achievement yet. Whether the new patch will shift the balance has yet to be seen.
Keep in mind that the big advantage of MM is if they spec for it, they can get considerably higher volley damage, which gives them a disproportionate overall dps because of aoeing the naxx trash. This isn’t terribly helpful to the raid however, since the trash isn’t a problem, it’s the bosses you want to spec for. But even with the volley buff, SV can currently beat MM on overall damage done with naxx 25 gear.
Member
Frost, where are you getting those patch notes info from? I checked wowhead.com and the http://www.worldofwarcraft.com site for the patch notes. I even checked the current test realm patch notes and these arent listed in either.
I’ve recently switched to MM from SV…this was before I saw the blue post…I usually run with 2-3(me and 1-2 others) hunters in my grp so I decided to help everybody by supplying the True Shot Aura…this is my current build:
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=3&tal=532000010000000000000000000353350310300132331050203515000000000000000000000000000
…anyways, I really haven’t noticed to bad of a mana hog issue…it doesn’t bother me to slip into Viper for a few sec and then back to dragonhawk…I use a add-on that warns me when my mana is low and tells me when its full so i can switch back…anyways, heres a build you can try and see how it works.
Tsailencer
Antiquus Morte Ortus, Silvermoon
Admin
Neven: Test realm notes. The best source for all the latest updates (and blue posts about the updates) is http://www.mmo-champion.com
Member
sigh… no love for the mages… again.
I keep forgetting about mmo-champion. I went to http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html
and didnt see it there, which is why I was wondering.
The Haterade
If they did buff mages, what would you be able to bitch about?
Member
He’d bitch about how he always dies when he pulls aggro
Admin
No, he’d just say that’s what iceblock is for and let the healers get munched.
He’d just bitch about how hunters are OP, despite the acknowledgment from Blizz that they are too weak and need buffs. Muahahaha
Member
It saddens me that you guys think I cant come up with something to bitch about. I gots plenty!
God damn I hate you Hrist.
And hunters are underpowered somewhat in maxed out gear, compared to scaling at rediculously high levels of gear. so what do they do? they buff all the hunters. Frost already tops the dps charts where ever he goes and I am sure this buff will make even more of a gap. If I play my class as well as can be, I “Might” come close to his dps (500dps under would be a guess)… but he is usually 1k dps over me.
I dont suck as a mage, and I have decent gear (feel free to imba me folks, I’m on icecrown) so the min/max weasel in me has to ask the question, “Where’s our love?”
The Haterade
So you admit you don’t play to your full potential? Ryfft is often close to Frost in Ulduar, perhaps you can ask him how to play properly! Then you can see if you really need buffs.
Admin
I dunno neven, I think part of it is that mages scale much better with gear (and the fact that they ignore armor, which gets higher in harder dungeons, hurting physical damage dealers but not casters.) But even in our gear, mages are not bad. Ryfft once beat me on Patchwerk 25-man, and he’s usually riding my ass all the time. So much so that I’m starting to get suspicions about his intentions.
But here, let me give you a test:
Do you always have the best buff food on you? Do you always use a flask?
Do you cast instants on the run every time you have to move to avoid void zones, aoe’s, etc?
How many spellpower is 1 crit rating worth for your spec? How many spellpower is 1 hit rating worth? 1 Int?
Do you have a dual spec with focus magic that you switch to every 30 min just to cast the buff, then switch back to your main spec?
I don’t know a lot about mages; however, I know that these are just some of the surface elements of the mage version of paying yer dues. I do not exaggerate when I say that I literally work for every dps. I will spend a thousand gold for a 1 dps increase. There’s a reason I’m so broke from constant respeccing. I don’t like sitting at the target dummy for hours, but I really like topping the damage meters!
The Haterade
And yet you won’t use a bow if it’s your best DPS option.
Even you have your limits it seems!
Admin
In what crazy world is a bow ever better than a gun?
Let’s be serious here.
Member
Heh, Frosty got beat out by a rogue on Patchwerk last weekend.
Sub-5k dps too, for shame!
Contributor
Gun ammo is tougher. The Blasting Triggers never sell on my AH. I have to whore out to pug engineers to make them. So I prefer bows, but only because I’m lazy.
Also, “blah” to having to learn a new spec. But hell, like Frost said topping meters is fun.
Dues Payer
in what world is a bow better than a gun? example:
we are standing merely a few feet apart. i have a bow pulled back taut aimed at your face. you have a gun in mine.
if you shoot me, im gonna instantly relax, releasing the arrow. you gonna shoot and move in time?
—————-
so anyway, +200 ap on marked, and +350 with improved marks. thats what, 14-15 dps increase normally and 25 with the talents?
The difference there Quivering is that Frost has an item lodged in his head and you don’t have one at all. ; )
Member
Thanks Tsailencer for the info, I’m dual spec at the moment, and I’m looking at staying Survival and Marksmanship, and drop BM for a while, (I love my pets) but I need to do damage)
in frosts defence, wasn’t the rogue using a 226 and 232 ilvl weapon combo, with most of the rest of gear in the 219+ category? The way drops have gone in 10 man has rather favoured leather wearing blenders.
And on the subject of mage scaling.. In L80 blues my mage was barely sustaining 2k dps, after a few runs through naxx and switching out most of the blue for purple, he doubled his dps output, breaking 4k on patchwerk. The scaling for mages surprised me. When hrist mentions ryffts dps being similar to frosts, I’ve seen ryfft get ahead with full raid stacking, but i also remember clearly our first 25man naxx runs where i was dpsing as a DK, still in mostly blue gear of about the same level as ryfft and thrashing him in dps, thinking to myself “proof positive my move to DK was the right one”. I dps’d as a mage near 3yrs with ryfft, knowing how good a player he was and seeing that gap really made me feel for the class. Cut to a couple of months of gearing later and he’s hitting like a truck again. Scaling is wildly different between classes.
Right now on my DK I’m looking at a single sigil change being worth upwards of 600dps for my preferred dps spec, no single peice of gear upgraded in any other slot is worth more than 30ish dps except weapon to best in slot, which would be about 100. Mages just don’t upgrade off any single item like that, it’s all in the tiny incremental improvements in every single slot.
Member
Nope, the rogue in question was using a 213 MH and 219 OH with most of the gear a mix of 200 and 213
Admin
Yeah, I don’t know what was going on in that fight (other than lack of AI and a pvp trinket /shame) but I had to go into viper 4 times on that one fight. I can only guess that there was some kind of mana regen missing from the raid.
Yea…I take that back about not seeing any kind of mana issue..in 25 man raids I found the mana issue to be no problem..with all the mana regen buffs I was fine..I did a 10 man Ulduar tonight and I lost mana really fast…constantly saw my mana almost gone…I might have to decide to go dual spec on a hunter and use SV for 10 man and MM for 25 man…I’d hate to spend 1000g I really don’t have to dual spec a hunter..lol…I don’t PVP so that makes it even a crazier idea…oh well guess I’ll have to lvl another toon to 80 and do every quest in Northrend to get about 7-9k g…I still have 2 more lvl 70′s to do this with.
Tsailencer
Antiquus Morte Ortus, Silvermoon
Member
Ironically, to all your questions Frost, yes. Yes, I use flasks on every boss fight. The best food? I almost always use the fish feasts provided for the raid by the cheerleader. The spec I am in is supposed to be the best spec for dps, though I took a decent hit switching to it because it requires more hit then I had (losing presision in frost tree hurt).
The switching specs to get focus magic to work hasnt worked for weeks, but the current spec I have actually has focus magic in it.
Ryfft is currently in arcane spec and I am doing TTW/fireball spec.
In short, the answer is yes, I do what I can to make sure I am up to date as far as the new specs. Much as you do for yours (though I dont respec 123539129012 times, cuz you are crazy).
Admin
I’m afraid you haven’t answered yes to all of the questions (buff food and stat conversions).
Since the hunters mark has been improved would improved hunters mark now be worth it? it would be 150 att pwr bonus now.