Survival SV Hunter Rotation Guide

Posted: by Frostheim


reviewed and accurate
Reviewed 8/26/10
Patch 3.3.5 OUTDATED

Warning: This is an outdated Wrath guide. For current information, see the level 85 Cataclysm version of the guide Here.

The Survival hunter has some crucially different shot rotation choices in WotLK than either BM or MM hunters that changes the shot cycle. As of patch 3.2.2, the Survival hunter shot rotation is the most difficult shot rotation to manage of all the hunter specs. The basic survival hunter shot rotation looks like this:

Survival Hunter Shot Rotation Priority:

Kill Shot
Explosive Shot
Black Arrow
Serpent Sting
Multi Shot (or aimed shot)
Steady Shot

As a Survival hunter you want your rotation to keep your Serpent Sting up all the time and you want to use Black Arrow whenever it’s available – both for the Lock & Load procs and the damage increase (and the DoT). Otherwise, you want to hit Explosive Shot every time it’s off cooldown, and use Multi-Shot and Steady Shot to fill in your shot rotation while you wait for Explosive Shot cooldown to finish. The idea is that Explosive Shot is the highest damage shot, then multi-shot/aimed (which does a lot more damage than steady) then use Steady Shot to fill in the gaps. So the basic of the survival shot rotation is Serpent always up, Black Arrow whenever available, Explosive, then Multi or Steady until Explosive is ready again. But there’s a catch:

lockandload1How Lock and Load affects your shot cycle
Lock and Load is the one wrinkle in the Survival hunter shot cycle. It procs off your traps, but also has a chance of proccing off of your Black Arrow ticks. When it does, you get two free Explosive Shots that trigger no cooldown and cost no mana. This is awesome. But. You cannot just spam those Explosive Shots.

The way Explosive Shot works is it hits your target for a good amount of damage (with an increased crit chance). Then each second for the next two seconds it ticks for its full damage again, and those ticks can crit just like the actual shot. But if you fire a new Explosive Shot immediately after hitting with Explosive Shot (because of Lock & Load) you will overwrite one of those two ticks of extra damage — so you’re only getting the first hit from your first explosive shot and the first tick, rather than all three.

Now, we must remember the 1.5 sec global cooldown. We fire our first shot, then it’s 1.5 sec before we can hit the next explosive from our Lock & Load — that’s most of the 2 seconds we need to wait right there. So all we have to do is wait 0.5 seconds after we could fire another shot to fire explosive again. In a perfect situation your Lock & Load rotation becomes:

Explosive Shot
– Wait 2 seconds
Explosive Shot
– Wait 2 seconds
Explosive Shot

Yes, it is perfectly acceptable to put a steady shot or multi-shot in there; however, you will actually do slightly more damage by just waiting a half second. Not a lot more, a wee tiny bit more. And technically if you have an Aimed Shot available, you’ll do a teensy bit more by weaving that in between. The most importantly thing though is not to hit those explosives too soon.

blackarrowBlack Arrow
Patch 3.1 brought an overhaul to the SV shot rotation with Black Arrow. This shot is a damage over time, can proc Lock & Load (with a 22 second cooldown), and increases all damage you do to the target. The problem is it lasts 15 seconds, and has a cooldown of 30 seconds (which can be reduced to 24 seconds with the Resourcefulness talent).

In short, Black Arrow is very good, and it is essential that you have it up as often as you can.

Some  Black Arrow exceptions are: if you know when your Shaman will be popping Heroism — make sure you have Black Arrow available for Heroism. If you’re in a boss fight and you know you’re going to have to be moving really soon, it would be worthwhile to hold off Black Arrow for a few seconds. In general, you want to maximize the damage this shot can give you.

Trap Dancing
No need, don’t do it. Black Arrow shares a cooldown with your explosive/immolation traps, and is much better for your dps in the long run. This is a pvp concern, and only very occasionally worthwhile on certain boss fights.

The Aimed Shot Factor

Of course you can use Aimed Shot instead of Multi-Shot in your SV shot rotation. They both do about the same damage, so there’s no need to take the Aimed Shot talent unless you want the instant shot (great for mobile fights), or if you PVP. You can see our detailed testing and explanation of this Here.

Macro? Nah.

The problem with macroing the SV shot cycle is Lock & Load — you don’t want your standard /castsequence explosive, steady, steady, steady because that cycle changes when Lock & Load procs – not to mention the chaos that Black Arrow introduces into your rotation.

I promise you this: any macro you create that uses /castsequence to manage your shot rotation will give you worse damage than manually doing it.

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  1. Joe says:

    /script UIErrorsFrame:UnregisterEvent(”UI_ERROR_MESSAGE”);
    /cast Kill Command
    /cast Kill Shot(Rank 3)
    /castsequence Steady Shot(Rank 4)
    /cast Explosive Shot(Rank 1)

    Works great but shouldn’t it be

    /cast Explosive Shot(Rank 4)

  2. rzn says:

    it just spams ss for me.

  3. Ularac says:

    Made one for normal shots and another for LocknLoad. Helps cut down the SS repition. Two buttons still better than 3 or 4.

    How is mana consumption? I have only tested a bit and mana goes down quickly…

  4. Frostheim says:

    Yes, rank 4 would be helpful. Updated, thanks! You really don’t want to know the extent of that mistake!

    I’m really uncertain about this macro. It usually works for me, but the macro experts in my guild tell me that it shouldn’t work, and that it does is probably a bug. So please — test away and post your results. Let’s find out if this is worth it (though I’ll be a sad dwarf if it is not)

  5. Ularac says:

    Tried it and I get “can’t cast” errors constantly.

  6. Júdas says:

    TBH don’t see the need for a macro for this rotation. I use “need to know” addon & have it setup for lock & load procs. Get a nice bar on your screen to let you know procs up. I also have aimed shot & find this & multi help when you weave this into your rotation instead of many ss. Obviously not between lnl procs as you would be losing ticks.

  7. Bloodstyle says:

    I use this macro which also uses pet abilities:

    #showtooltip Steady Shot
    /castsequence Steady Shot,
    /cast Kill Shot
    /cast Explosive Shot
    /cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
    /cast [target=pettarget,exists] Rabid
    /cast [target=pettarget,exists] Rake
    /cast [target=pettarget,exists] Claw

  8. Twilightglim says:

    Is it possible to create a macro that uses the above macro and incorporates target, dash, (the pet attack sequence)? I have tried making those one macro, and haven’t done something right, so have reverted back to two separate macros… one for pet and one for sv. Solutions?

  9. Frostheim says:

    Your pet abilities like Bite/Claw/Smack, Rabid, Call of the Wild — generally you can just leave all of these on autocast. If you’re really tweaking your raid dps, you want to manually control Call of the Wild and Furious Howl to stack the buffs with your other proc/on use abilities.

    I do have a macro for pet attack (which I have bound to crtl-1) that sends the pet it, casts kill command, and puts up hunters mark — but that really isn’t necessary. Put Kill Command on your steady shot and leave the pet abilities on auto cast.

  10. Twilightglim says:

    Okay..

    Also, the macro above isn’t working for me.. I am not getting an error message, it just isn’t casting explosive shot. I cut and pasted it, so not sure what the problem is.

  11. macelynk says:

    yo does the macro in teh main body of this post cast arcane shot at all? i don’t see it in the macro? and i copy and pasted out of the main body and i do get an error message

  12. Ularac says:

    Let me rephrase, I get a Can’t Cast message, not an error. But, the results are the same. The macro doesn’t work for me. Guess I have to go back to the manual approach…

  13. Pothios says:

    Only problem I had with the original macro posted in the main body was spamming the button also spammed
    “/script UIErrorsFrame:UnregisterEvent(”UI_ERROR_MESSAGE”);”
    in my guild chat! LOL But, I’ve fixed that on my own.

    Macelynk…I hope you meant “Explosive Shot”…not Arcane Shot. You do NOT want arcane, because it triggers the cooldown of Explosive.

  14. Pigpen says:

    The new shot rotation, regardless of macro’s or hand woven, seems to be alittle slow in regards to burst damage. Although happy with this during raiding as it allows the MT to build a good agro lead, it is near crippling during a “ganked” encounter.

    Any recommendations? I am thinking of maybe the two button solution might work. Or maybe starting with the explosive shot manual weaving. Thoughts

  15. Júdas says:

    I weave manually, if you are at the haste soft cap take less points in aoth & try taking scatter shot for any pvp encounters.

  16. Clinh says:

    I don’t see your point regarding noxious stings. Yes it gives you a 3% increase in serpent sting damage but isn’t it better to move those 4 points into marksmanship where it gives you Aimed Shot and 2 points in improved stings which give you a 20% increase in serpent sting?

  17. Frostheim says:

    Clinh: Noxious Stings increases ALL of your damage by 3% when Serpent Sting is up — not just your Serpent Sting Damage.

    So it’s netting your more dps than improved serpent sting. (note aimed shot isn’t a dps increase to SV in most situations – though it’s a big deal for pvp)

  18. Clinh says:

    My apologies, I can see now there are 2 ways to read the description of Noxious stings, and I think I took the wrong one. Thanks for the explain.

  19. cpdragon says:

    Hi, i play a blood elf hunter 80 in magetheridon server.
    I have cleared all that is to be cleared. I have T7,5 all 5 pieces, and i’m full epic. I have changed to SV when nerf hit us.
    I’m having a big problem regarding my shot rotation.
    I’m using a macro that i saw here and i want to ask you that if really necessary to put in marco :
    / cast Explosive Shot(Rank 4)
    do we really need to put Rank 4 ?

  20. Ben says:

    I’m a hunter in No T7, just heroic epics and some blues. My DPS still seems to be higher than A LOT of people. And I have a little bit of insight if anyone is still using the rotation. IF it’s only spamming steady shot, then click on Explosive Shot and the glitch should end and it’ll shoot of Explosive Shot. None the less, even if you always have to use explosive shot, the combo with Kill Shot, Kill Command, and Steady Shot… Its still easier DPSing than trying to remember those while spamming everything else.

  21. Ben says:

    Oh, sorry to double post but, in PvP, if a healer is spamming heals this combined with a quick mana drain and Aimed shot does the job.

  22. Bob says:

    I recently switched to survival and cant get my DPS up!!
    I am almost full epic and have been hovering around 1500 DPS

    My toons name is Killadude on Mok’Nathal
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mok%27Nathal&n=Killadude

    My shot cycle is as recommended

    Serpent sting
    Steady Shot
    Explosive shot

    is the answer a new spec or what?

  23. Ben says:

    Well, make sure you have the spec from this website, and you’re correctly using your pet. Then make sure you’re popping one Sting, then use 3 Steady Shots, pop a Explosive shot. If you’re not timing it perfectly… then something is going to be wrong. (I can’t currently look at the armory, but that’s what i think you must do)

  24. Ben says:

    NVM i saw the armory, it was a glitch with your link or something. What you need to do is get some more Hit rating and WAY more Crit 26% won’t get you that far. And your AP is low. (You might be in PvP gear but that’s what you need to do. from that Source)

  25. Adare says:

    I think the macro dont run at Public Test Realm

    #showtooltip Steady Shot
    /cast Kill Shot
    /castsequence Steady Shot,
    /cast Explosive Shot

    Maybe im wrong
    Sorry if my english is bad

  26. Ocrion says:

    Hello,

    According to my gear&spec, i should stand at ~3,5k dps, as the other hunters in my guild, with very similar gear.

    But i can barely reach 2,5k dps.

    My rotation is SerpSting,ExpShot,2-3xSteady.
    When LnL procs i dont weave any SS in between, only
    autoshot and ExpShot again when the ES dot is gone.

    What am i doing wrong??????
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twilight%27s+Hammer&n=Ocrion

    Thanks

  27. Frostheim says:

    No hunter should be at 3.5k dps on the heroic (lvl 83) target dummy, unless they’re using kill shot on the dummy at low health.

    When L&L procs you should Explosive Shot – ANY OTHER SHOT – then Explosive Shot again. Why just sit there? Your auto shots will fire no matter what, even in the middle of casting another shot.

    As a reference, I pull on average 2.9k on the boss target dummy with no kill shot. Sure, sometimes I spike well over 3k, but it’s usually around 2.9k. On Patchwerk with 25-man raid buffs and combos I pull around 5.4k dps.

  28. Apuka says:

    So Frost… the other day when I was working Apuka on that instance run, I noticed that you use multi shot quite a bit. is that during the lock and load off shot? or just when there are 3 or more mobs you toss that in if its not on cooldown in place of a steady shot?

    I also notice now after reading the shot cycle stuff that Apuka’s dps would go up quite a bit if I stopped using arcane shot (wasnt aware that it was the same cooldown as explosive shot). Guessing that Apuka’s dps would go up ALOT with changes to some of the mistakes I was making in shot cycle.

  29. Frostheim says:

    I use multi-shot whenever there is more than one target, and I’m not in danger of pulling aggro by using it.

    Explosive Shot is always my priority — I use that whenever it’s available. But a multi-shot regardless of the number of targets is way better than steady shot.

  30. Ocrion says:

    Thanks Frost!
    The addon for L&L really helps btw, increased my dps ~100-200. Not bad!
    But still on boss dummy only 1,9k … (+300 for my wasp..)

  31. Nattie says:

    Personally I think that macros are dumb. I can pull 5k dps on patchwerk and my guild’s other raiding hunter who has slightly better gear than me but the same spec only pulls 4.1-4.3k dps on patch and he uses macros. I think that if you are awake and you are a competent raiding hunter, manually using your shots will increase your dps substantially.
    P.s.-I also use multi shot in my rotation because I specced for hunting party and I never have to worry about going OOM in a raid and seeing 3 targets get hit for 3.5k damage each makes me smile.

  32. Frostheim says:

    Totally agree with you Nattie. Well, kind of agree with you.

    There are many hunter macros that are invaluable and will help you in many small ways. There is not any macro for your base SV shot cycle that won’t hurt you. You are absolutely better off managing your shot cycle yourself.

  33. Kukamuro says:

    i just wanted to say thanks!

    Before i followed your guide i was getting a crappy 1400 ish dps now with the guide mirrored (all parts, pet, build etc) my survival hunter + a lvl 75 cat was doing 2100 dps on a training dummy. I cant wait to see what it is when i get my pet to 80 and get out of these green items,

    Good work.

    Kukamuro, Boulderfist.

  34. Golgat, Maelstrom says:

    How does Aimed Shot fit in the rotation?

    And apologies if I missed it in an above post.

    Also, great site. Thanks for the awesome info.

  35. Nola says:

    In the article above you state, “We had a terribly clever macro put together,” would you mind showing it to us? I’m curious to see what it was comprised of

  36. quivering says:

    sigh

    just when i think i have sv rotation mastered, i learn how much i fail. ive been forgetting multi shot AND spamming explosive for lock and load. i spam explosive cuz im afraid im gonna run out of time.

    and ive read this page umpteen times, howd i miss this. ahh well, good to know (now).

    i have one concern about multi… if it splits and hits multiple targets, i assume its dmg also split. fights like noth, anub, maex could cause this, and i can see now hitting a spore in loath with multi too early :O

  37. Frostheim says:

    The damage from multi is not split — it does the full damage for each target.

    But yes, if there are mobs that you shouldn’t be shooting (like spores) you need to not use multi at those times (or use Aimed Shot if you have it).

  38. bilyjack says:

    As a survival hunter, I’ve always been a hybrid to get the best damage. When Wotlk came out, I’ve been reluctant to go the full Monty in survival. I also like guaranteed damage when possible. My question is, should I drop Aimed Shot for Lock and Load? Is lock and load really worth it?
    My build:
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Kirin+Tor&n=Billyjack

    Thanks

  39. irraaa says:

    hello i just would like to ask what i do wrong. I have survival hunter and i am full epic geared (t7.5+) got 4.5k ap 34% crit with Aspect of Dragonhawk. Shot rotation = serpent sting->explosive shot->steady shot->steady shot->explosive shot + some multi shots and my dps is only 3-3.3k and ofc when LocknLoad progs i use explosi->auto shot->explosive->auto shot->explosive etc..

  40. willmunny says:

    button 1: serpent sting

    button 2 macro:
    #show Explosive Shot
    /castsequence reset=3 Explosive Shot, Steady Shot

    button 3 macro:
    #show
    /cast Kill Command
    /cast Kill Shot
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
    /castsequence reset=10 Multi-Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot

    how it works:
    hit button 1 to apply sting
    hit button 2 to apply explosive shot
    hit button 3 while waiting for explosive shot to come back up on button 2

    rinse and repeat

    if lock and load procs, spam button 2

    any comments, suggestions or emotional outbursts?

  41. Nuku says:

    willmunny – I’ll try this when I get home from work today.. I’ve never been a fan of macros, specially with SV spec. But something interesting to try nontheless. Thanks.

  42. irraaa says:

    thanks mate that helpped a bit :)))

  43. Wildpet says:

    Im a well geared hunter 425 imba SV speced my rotation is
    HM>Serpent sting>SSx3>explosive shot rinse and reapeat
    LnL procs Explosive Shot>Explosive Shot>Explosive Shot
    but only pull off barely 2k dps what am i doing wrong?

  44. Krystallia says:

    @Wildpet – HM at start, Rotation: Exp Shot>Serp Sting>SSx3>Exp Shot repeat and reapply Sting as needed. Substitute a Steady shot in the rotation for a multi shot IF there are multiple targets. NEVER, EVER, EVER spam Exp shot upon LnL procs. Exp shot needs 2 seconds to fully tick off, with damage done on impact, at 1 and 2 seconds after impact. If you fire off exp shot one after the other, there is only the global cooldown of 1 sec time gap in between firing. This will definately negate the last tick off the first two shots, and possibly even 2 ticks off the first two shots dependent upon if you are moving towards the target while firing. Assume 4000 damage on each tick of Exp shot, that would mean a loss of 8000-16000 damage due to incorrect shot timing.

    Simply fire Exp shot>Steady>Exp>steady>Exp>Steady then resume normal rotation.

  45. Krystallia says:

    Frostheim mentioned the proper rotation in the main text above.

  46. Fyte says:

    Hey, Im level 72 almost 73 SV … (I knw should be level, I have sacrificed dumping my talent specs on BM Improved aspet of Hawk for the sake of Completing my SV Template early with the neccessary MM boosts… if neccesary completing the exact spec as i level but for now…i have good enough gear to throw out 1650 comfortably and 4.5Killshot.

    Basically im wanting to learn a little about Black arrow… and where it should be applied if at all in certain situations (boss fights)

    Im using it currently pre- rotation and managing to keep up with the 76SV Hunter in my guild in the top 2 DPS’ers on Raids….i dont know if there is a penalty to using it … the cooldown is now short enuf to use it numerous times in bossfights .

    By the way this site is a great …

  47. FYTE says:

    Also forgive my grammar… typing at work in a hurry … chopping and changing screens to avoid trouble.

    The first sentence of the above post… was meant to be apologising for not Using BM to level…. and retracting the Apology because DPS is where its at.

  48. Romalar says:

    How would you weave Black Arrow into a SV rotation?

  49. Ido of Uldaman says:

    Anyone else notice a serious decrease in LnL proc’n? I understand that Black Arrow does more damage then a trap does, and maybe it’s suppose to make up for a lower LnL proc but I feel like, pre 3.1, Serpent Sting proc’d LnL without trap dancing more then Black Arrow does now. I’ve done an entire instance with it only proc’n once. Maybe I’ve spec’d wrong or something or maybe this is a nerf. So back to original question, anyone else notice this?

  50. Frostheim says:

    The proc rate will be less, but not that drastically less. It still has a 10% chance per tick; however, while serpent sting was always up, Black Arrow is only up about half the time.

    To compensate for that somewhat, black arrow does not have the 30 second internal cooldown that L&L used to have on serpent. I definitely notice that it procs less often, but more like only 60% as often or so.

  51. Ido of Uldaman says:

    A guildie just told me that the last hot fix Blizzard just did was suppose to correct an issue with LnL, I didn’t see the notes on that mentioning it, but I did have more procs today when I ran a few instances. TY very much for your quick response Frost . . ; )

  52. Mark says:

    Hello! Great Site guys! I just started doing this shot cycle, and even though it kicks major ass, my problem is that my pet can’t seem to handle the aggro and i spend most of my time trying to get a good distance away. My pet is a Ravager, which I think is Cunning. If you have any tips that would be awesome!

  53. Inside says:

    Umm..lol. Hunters who use macros have lower DPS. Srsly. Its not hard to rotate shots.

  54. Iodate says:

    It maybe a little late but Willmunny I didnt see if you was using Black Arrow or not

  55. newkhaos says:

    I use this rotation:
    HM at start
    Rotation: Exp Shot>Serp Sting>SSx3>Exp Shot repeat and reapply Sting as needed
    I hardly get 2k dps on the dummy boss.
    Can someone explain me what i’m doing wrong?
    My char is newkhaos in nagrand (EU) horde.

    How do get Back Arrow in the rotation?
    I hardly get L&L proc. Can you help me understand why?
    When i get a L&L i should do: ES+SS+ES+SS+ES or spam ES?

    Thank you

    PS: I love this site

  56. Frostheim says:

    Um… I’m going to step up and disagree in a big way. You do NOT want to spend 2 seconds just sitting there doing nothing! Certainly you want to use multi-shot (or aimed) instead of a steady, but for the other gap, use a steady shot! At most the cast time of Steady Shot is 2 seconds, and we all have a decent amount of haste (gear, IAotH usually up, etc) reducing that at least enough to compensate for lag/human delay.

    Regarding aimed shot/multi-shot, I posted an exhaustive test of over 2,000 shots here: http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/04/aimed-shot-explained/

    Aimed shot does just a wee tiny bit more damage than multi shot. It’s great that it’s an instant, and priceless in pvp, and I love it. However, it’s not by any means essential and certainly not the best dps return you could get for that talent point.

  57. Frostheim says:

    Newkhaos: I have to admit your question confuses me… you’re posting on the topic where we explain the shot cycle. I suggest using the shot cycle posted in this article (and not the one you’re using).

  58. pawelski says:

    Frost, that wasn’t very clear of me. What I was saying is that it would be better than doing the two SSes that Newkhaos proposed and that I will stand by strongly. I do think that there are a number of things to throw in there and in some cases steady shot is one. However, with the 1.5 second global cool down and the (maximum) 2 second cast time alone (not including time to reach target), you’re losing (maximum, assuming you’re on the ball DPS wise) 1.5 seconds of Explosive shot cool down when you wait for more than two seconds. Do that 4 times and you lost a whole explosive shot. I do throw em in there when there is absolutely nothing else:

    Black Arrow > Serpent Sting refresh > Aimed Shot > Steady Shot.

  59. Frostheim says:

    Time to reach the target is irrelevant when we’re talking about cooldowns — the cooldown starts the instant you cast the shot. As long as your shots are under 2 sec, you’re maximizing L&L by weaving anything in between your explosive shots.

    Oh, I think I might see part of the confusion: for Steady Shot, the GCD starts when you *start* casting the shot. So by the time Steady Shot fires, you can instantly hit another shot! You don’t add the global cooldown in addition to the cast time. Thus you’re always under 2 sec, regardless of what shot you weave in.

  60. pawelski says:

    oops! I stand corrected.

  61. newkhaos says:

    Sorry about the confusion.
    What i mean is that i don’t know why i can’t do more that 2000 dps, even with your shoot cycle.
    What i’m doing wrong?
    That’s the question

  62. AverageBob says:

    I would have to disagree with you on multi-shot vs aimed shot. As you put it Aimed Shot does a little more damage than Multi-shot; however, even if they were the same damage, Aimed Shot costs about 1% less of your base mana. In one minute of combat the mana difference between Aimed and Multi is you have be one extra Aimed Shot. If you are on a single target like a boss, I would say used Aimed Shot instead of Muli especially if you are Survival with Sniper Training.

  63. Frostheim says:

    Bob: Again, I love aimed shot; however, it’s not really going to increase your dps as much as spending that talent point elsewhere. Again, here is the testing data: http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/04/aimed-shot-explained/

    As for mana… well, I don’t run out of mana in 25-man raids, and the mana difference on our 2nd lowest priority shot doesn’t really justify making a dps-negative move. Now, you could argue that value of having another instant shot with many of the moving fights in Ulduar, but again, if you’re just interested in max dps, I’m still going to have to leave aimed off of the talent build.

  64. AverageBob says:

    My point isn’t that Aimed Shot will increase your dps because of the debuff as you explained in your previous post. My point is that is you have Multi-Shot in your rotation, you should use Aimed Shot instead if you are on a single target which describes most boss fights. If you are a Surv hunter with Sniper training, Aimed Shot does more damage and costs less mana.

    The point of getting Aimed shot isn’t to max out dps but rather mana conservation. Mana conservation importance depends on your raid. Some raids can roll through heroic Naxx in 3 hours; and some groups (especially those that are not well geared) will take a few days in Naxx. Also not all raids have more than one mana replenishment players. The difference in dps is noticeable if you have to switch to Viper more than once during a boss fight. As fights get shorter and makeup is different, you could re-spec that one point to something else.

    With WOTLk there is no longer “the standard” build for any hunters. They have to be tailored to your situation. Personally, our guild didn’t always have a 2nd Surv hunter or Ret Pally for raids so I took a lot of points in Hunting Party before 3.1 changes when the only benefit was mana replenishment.

  65. liverot says:

    freezing arrow is a 100 percent chance to proc lock and load and only cost 60 mana may be good to have in rotation

  66. Ben says:

    Hey guys. I’m a 80 hunter on server Twilight’s Hammer.
    I’m usually reaching 3.5-5k dps.

    Here’s my Shot rotation

    Serpent sting
    Black Arrow
    Explosive shot
    Steady shot
    Steady shot
    Steady shot
    Explosive shot
    Steady shot
    Serpent sting
    Kill shot repeat etc.

    When L&L Applies for more damage you make sure you do Explosive shot ONCE then Steady shot then Explosive shot again and then Steady shot so you do that 3 times.
    If you just click Explosive shot your dps will raise but not as much by doing Steadyshot between.
    So Goodluck guys! Have fun hunting

  67. Arthemystia says:

    Liverot: Freezing Arrow shares a cooldown with Black Arrow, which provides a considerable DoT and bonus dmg. to all other shots. Blizzard went out of its way to take out trap dancing in 3.1, with both this shared cooldown and the changed Sniper Training. It might not be bad when there is a benefit to having the arrow down for CC purposes, but as a raw dps shot, it won’t do what BA can.

    And decent rotation Ben, but like Frost says above, working in Multi-Shot (or even Aimed) instead of one of those Steadys should produce a more optimal cycle.

  68. Jacobteague says:

    I recomen speccing for Aimed Shot rather than using multi shot becuase it is less mana per shot. They bother are an instant shot and both do about the same dmg. So, why not use a less costing mana shot? And to answer a question about half way down.. Arcane shot shares the same cool down as explosive shot; so take it off your bar, you no longer need it :D.

  69. Frostheim says:

    Note that multi-shot is not an instant (.5 sec cast) so you can’t shoot it on the run. The reason you wouldn’t take aimed shot is that you can get a larger dps gain by spending that talent point elsewhere. The big advantage of aimed shot is not the mana cost, but the fact that it’s an instant so you can shoot on the run.

  70. Ulftar says:

    so how im doing my shots is rather then a simple rotation i prioritize my shots to so as to get as many in as possible
    #1 Kill shot
    #2 Exp shot
    #3Black arrow
    #4 Serp sting
    #5multishot
    #6 steady shot

    I make sure i keep black arrow and serpent sting up when they finish, but say if black arrow and explosive shot finished thier cd’s at the same time, i would prioritize Exp shot and fire that first then fire black arrow. Ditto with Killshot and explosive shot, if their cd’s go down at the same time, i will always shoot the killshot before i shoot the exp shot.

    Is this the best way to do it? and are my priorities correct?

    Also, should i be shooting multishot whenever its off its cd? I have been but im not sure if the mana cost of multishot is worth it

  71. MrJackdaw says:

    I am still confused as to why trap dancing is not worth it – could you elucidate? And yes, I am new to SV!

  72. Frostheim says:

    Your Black Arrow shares a cooldown with your traps — so you can do one or the other, and your Black Arrow adds more damage to your overall dps.

    Also keep in mind that in a real boss environment it’s almost impossible to trap dance perfectly efficiently. You are generally losing shots because of the constant moving, and often killing your sniper training bonus.

  73. MrJackdaw says:

    Thank you, I get it now. Basically; Black Arrow DPS + Occasional Lock & Load is better than 100% Lock and Load, but lost shots. *nods* Cheers!

  74. FAILhutnersareFAIL says:

    All you hunter’s discussing macro’s for a 1 button rotation are TERRIBLE..
    Read what he said, manually weaving your own rotation will out-dps ANY macro you half-wits will think of. Learn you rotation and stop being BAD.

  75. Bradock says:

    Mates,

    I’ve created a very easy macro, just to get more space on my bar.
    It keeps the opportunity for L&L, but more or less putting the manual way on 1 button:

    /castsequence reset=3 Explosive shot, aimed shot.

    U can also put steady and serpent on 1 button

    This is just putting the two shots on 1 button and the 3 sec reset helps u manage the L&L effect if procs.
    But as Frost described, it is not much of an effort to use this manually.

    (I hate the HM is on the GCD)

  76. MrJackdaw says:

    My desire to macro some of this is _almost_ irresistible. I have Hunters Mark/Prowl/Pet attack all on one button, but that’s it. It FEELS better weaving the shots myself. I have become so lazy using macro’s it has taken a lot of the challenge away from playing a hunter. Not to mention having to learn how to manage aggro again!

  77. MrJackdaw says:

    Oh! Sorry – I meant to add to that that the addon Inline Aura http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/inline-aura.aspx has been very useful for keeping Serpent Sting up continulously. I like seeing the timer on the button!

  78. Bandoolero says:

    Very great guide. Im sure that I will put it in good use. Once i remember to change the tactic when Lock and Load procs, it will be piece of cake.

    Thank You very much, i will try to get to the top of the damage-meter =)

  79. soltris says:

    #showtooltip Auto Shot
    /castrandom ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Serpent Sting
    /castrandom [target=pettarget,exists] Black Arrow,Explosive shot,Kill Shot,Multi-Shot
    /cast [target=pettarget,exists] Steady shot

    I use this macro… I just hit 80 and I can pull about 2k dps on the Heroic Training Dummy in Org.

    The reason I have the /castrandom ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Serpent Sting That equates to a 1in20 chance to cast Serpent Sting

  80. derek says:

    i have a friend who said when LnL procs, it should be explosive,arcane, explosive, which is better? thie or the SSrotation? please email me at uncled1992@yahoo.com and answer, i may have some other questions as well.

    And also is this THE most efficient build for dps? i am just looking to get my raid dps i am just looking to get my dps up at the moment, and also, what are the best glyphs to use for this rotation/ build? any info? what is the best pet build and or pet? i have to say that heart of the phoenixis the most efficient talent in theyre talent tree forme, because no one heals pets, i must admit i dont really heal myown pet,dont really pay attention. But anyway, does the pets talent improve youre overall dps?

    and another thing, im not sure how to set up a macro but i want to get one that uses a few spots to leave open my action bar, can i make one to cast hunters mark, use my trinket, and then use rapid fire? if so please post. :D

  81. shane says:

    i am a newbie level 80 SV Hunter and so confused how to do and use my rotation? Can someone please tell me the best macro or rotation that will make my dps the most pls cuz my dops sucks! ty

  82. Arthemystia says:

    Macros lower potential dps, shane, even if they are more convenient. There isn’t a macro that can account for the various cooldowns and procs that we have to deal with on the fly.

    So read through this post a few times until you have a good understanding of it. Then go to a major city in WoW and practice this cycle on the training dummies until you have it down pat. Once you do, you should see your dps jump considerably.

    Good luck!

  83. Mythdios says:

    Noxious Sting Question– We’ve got 4 points wrapped up in a bonus whose proccing shot isn’t in the rotation and that raid bosses are immune to. Please help me understand this? Should I add Wyvern into the shot rotation (for raiding) even though it’s not in your recommended rotation, Frostheim?

    Searching high and low for an answer to this… wondering what i’m missing that everyone else knows… Thanks for an awesome site!

  84. Frostheim says:

    Mythdios: re-read Noxious stings — it has 2 effects. We don’t care about the wyvern sting effect. Noxious Stings also makes *ALL* of your shots do more damage if *serpent sting* is up (which is always is). Thus it’s pretty much a flat percentage damage increase.

  85. Mythdios says:

    Okay, thanks Frostheim. I was reading the bonus as part of Wyvern being dispelled. My bad, and Blizzard’s poor punctuation. Ha!

  86. dimitris says:

    hi

    my shot rotation is black arrow serpent sting aimed shot steady shot and then steady shot until i have explosives shot cd back.

  87. dimitris says:

    can u plz tell me what i do wrong

  88. Blab says:

    Is there a difference if I start with Black Arrow then Serpent Sting.
    I heard if sv hunters start with Black Arrow LnL proc chance is going up. But just a hearsay.

    What I mean here is, do you consider Serpent Sting then Black Arrow is optional or is that the way it should be.

  89. Koonazz says:

    Should I shoot Noxious Sting only at the beginning of a fight, or every time it’s up?

  90. Blab says:

    You mean Serpent Sting . Dont you ?
    If yes …. You should keep it on the boss whole fight. Because it gives you the %3 bonus only if Serpent Sting is on the boss.

  91. Lurthz says:

    Hi im lurthz on ravencrest, im followning ur cycle exactly as this one, but on heroic dummy i cant get my dps much more than 2,2k dps, you know what the problem could be if so plz mail me /ola1993z@gmail.com/ (ps: im not glyphed
    and when the serpent sting is running out of time should i then use a new one?

  92. Koonazz says:

    No, I meant Noxious Sting or Wyvern Sting, whichever it is. Since you can only have one sting on a target at a time, Do I need to shoot Noxious, then Serpent or the other way around? And do I need to keep shooting Noxious, or is it a one time only thing as long as Serpent doesn’t run out?

  93. Frostheim says:

    Noxious Stings is not a shot — it just makes all your other shots do more damage when Serpent Sting is up. You’ll just about never want to use Wyvern Sting in a raid. Keep Serpent Sting up, and you’re good.

  94. Blab says:

    First of all, there is not a sting named Noxious Sting its just a talent which gives you this :
    Noxious Stings Rank 3

    If Wyvern Sting is dispelled, the dispeller is also afflicted by Wyvern Sting lasting 50% of the duration remaining, and increases all damage done by you on targets afflicted by your Serpent Sting by 3%.

    Threfore those two abilities are not related things.

    You dont have to shoot Wyvern Sting . So you misunderstood the purpose of the talent.
    What you should keep on is Serpent Sting not anything else in that talent or I should say it with this way … You dont have to shoot Wyvern Sting at beginning of the fight or during fight.

    Except this situation: If something not Immune to your Wyvern Sting exists, your instance leader might want you to put it to sleep with your Wyvern Sting.

  95. Blab says:

    Frostheim probably you couldnt read my first post because too many message came after it after my rewriting please respond . Its kinda confusing for many Survival Hunters.

    Blab
    Member
    Is there a difference if I start with Black Arrow then Serpent Sting.
    I heard if sv hunters start with Black Arrow Lock and Load appearance chance is going up. But just a hearsay.

    What I mean here is, do you consider Serpent Sting then Black Arrow is optional or is that the way it should be.

    June 26, 2009, 6:29 pm

  96. Frostheim says:

    Blab: Honestly, it doesn’t make a huge difference and won’t affect your L&L proc chance. I do serpent sting first so that I’m not wasting one of my damage increased shots firing off a dot.

  97. Ognib says:

    Frostheim,
    Great site, great post and great patience answering the same questions multiple times. I am using the rotation with an engineering alteration. When available, I replace steady shot with “Gnomish Lighting Generator” or “Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket” in an attempt to increase DPS. The Question is this really helping with DPS?

  98. Marian says:

    I appreciate all the great info on this site. I’ve been playing a hunter for 3 years now, and I have a question regarding the shot rotation. It’s been suggested that you do serpent sting then black arrow, but if black arrow increases the damage of your other shots, does that include your serpent sting?

    I go: ba, expl, serpent, aimed, expl, steady, steady, expl, and rinse and repeat. With my glyphs, by the time BA is off cd, I shoot it and my serpent sting needs to be reapplied.

    I do it this way because I assumed that black arrow would also increase the damage of my serpent sting, but I’m not sure if this is correct. Any comment would be appreciated!

  99. shane says:

    hi can u pls tell me what is the best rotation shot so far for a survival hunter for having a max dps in group raids? I have been following all your suggestions here including the talent tree and the glyphs etc etc but my dps seems to be still low pls help me! tnx

  100. Tyloor says:

    I have done a lot of reading on Survival spec’d Hunters over the last several weeks. I am confused. I see a lot of different shot rotations some matching mine and others not. I am a T7 T7.5 Hunter with some Uldar gear raid buffed pushing 3000 DPS. My Shot Rotation is…
    Serpent Sting
    BLack Arrow
    Explosive Shot
    Aimed SHot/ Multi-Shot
    Steady Shot/STeady Shot

    RInce Repeat, watch for Procs Hit Explosive shot when cooldown is gone for Lock and Load.
    I feel like I am doing something wrong. I see other Hunters in raid doing like 1500 more DPS then me with only slightly better gear and Hunters with slightly lower gear keep up with me or sometimes even passing me. I work on my talent spec, and shot rotation but just can’t seem to to better. TOday I was reading shot macros looking for and insdie scoop for an automation to take away from the human error side of things on my rotation but like others have siad due to the proc of Lock and Load you really can’t get into complicated shot rotations. A Bit of insite would be super helpful.
    Thanks

    Tyloor
    80 Hunter
    Drenden

  101. Razincain says:

    Frost,
    This is the macro I set up and use. I am currently at 2.9DPS in 25 Naxx. Can you give me some suggestions on the rotation to increase my DPS output?

    #showtiptool
    /castsequence [reset=target] Black Arrow, Aimed Shot, Serpent Sting, Explosive Shot, Steady Shot, Serpent Sting, Steady Shot, Aimed Shot, Explosive Shot, Steady Shot, Serpent Sting, Explosive Shot,

  102. Frostheim says:

    Yes, you can improve yoru dps by handling your shot rotation manually. Any macro that uses /castsequence or /castrandom is going to do *worse* than manually managing your shot rotation in an actual raid environment.

  103. Tubbywench says:

    Is SV still the best DPS spec there is (for hunters)?

    I have heard several people say that MM is better now, but none really seem to know well.

  104. Tubbywench says:

    Ugh, cant Edit these….

    Some more questions.

    I am at heart a BM hunter, I got my big white Dino at 60, and have been in love with him ever since, I have tired SV and MM before, but I’m just not feeling the love there. However as I get into harder raids where we need more DPS, i am making the switch to a higher DPS spec.

    One problem I have had with both SV and MM on some raid bosses is keeping up with my shot-rotations, as I’m having to run all over the place, and focus on staying alive more than my rotation. Part of this is because I’m not used to the spec yet, but between MM and SV, which has an easier rotation to keep up with.

    Also, which pet is the best DPS(for non BM), I have heard both wolves and cats.

    BTW, love this site, thanks for all the help.

  105. Arthemystia says:

    Tubby:

    – Which is the better dps spec? The unfortunate answer is “it depends.” At a certain gear level, MM passes SV because it scales better with gear. Where exactly that point is, is the debatable issue. If the majority of your gear is ilvl 213 or higher, you can probably feel comfortable with MM. But if you’re, say, Nax10 geared or lower, stick with SV. Those are general guidelines, and I’d personally say MM doesn’t clearly pass SV until you have a fair number of 219’s, with the 2-piece t8 set bonus.

    – BM has the easiest rotation by a lot. It’s a toss-up as to which of the others is most complex. Since MM is basically playing whack-a-mole with shots off of cooldown (Frost’s analogy, not mine), it’s probably a bit easier to do respectable dps, though not necessarily easier to maximize for dps. Lock & Load procs throw a monkey wrench into the SV cycle that can be tricky to learn, and it’s the cornerstone of a lot of SV dps.

    – Wolves are tops currently, but cats are getting buffed slightly next patch, so it will be close. Check out the main guides page here on the WHU for more info on all of this, because my post is basically regurgitating info from here.

  106. Razincain says:

    Thanks for the info. I will try the shot rotation manually and see how it goes.

  107. hunterzzZ says:

    Serpent Sting
    Black Arrow

    Explosive Shot
    Multi Shot
    Steady Shot
    Steady Shot

    with this am i ment to wait for muti shot or just skip it until its cooldown is up?

  108. Bone says:

    Just a question. I noticed in your macro you designate what rank of attack you wish to use. If nothing is entered does it default to the highest rank that you currently possess? Or must you tell it what level(rank) to use?

  109. adohokanda says:

    great site thnks for the info mate but i have one question which i have been pondering about for some time .For some its a bit obvious that multi will do more damage than aimed when there is more than one mob but in bosses eg: patchwork recount did show that when i used aimed instead of multi dps was way higher around 200 dps more do u agree mate because i am a bit confused and i read ur survival talent guide if u want to put 1 point into aimed where do u think u would take it from the guide

  110. Frostheim says:

    Multi shot and aimed shot will do almost the same damage against a single target. The only real advantage of aimed is that is is an instant (it also costs just a touch less mana).

  111. foshokillshotwtfbbq says:

    i just spiked 5k with BiS so no macro is needed

  112. Bozworth says:

    Wow, did not know that for the Explosive Shot ticks!! I was wasting all that precious DPS. Great sight :)

  113. Zabou says:

    Atm i am using full macro shot rotation that works pretty neat but needs a lot of calibration on the castsequence reset timers. Atm i pull like 2.8k to 2.9k in dummy and dont have that ubber gear yet, especially miss damn gun or bow ( i have the xbow from UP Heroic).
    Gl with this one and i hope this will help u a lot, just work with it for a while till u find the best castsequence reset timer.
    The bad thing with this one is that if u do something else when castsequencereset approaches u can loose the next macroed cast and u can end up with 2 or 3 rotations without casting that spell at all e.g. Blackarrow. I am working on this atm tryting to find the best castsequence time.

  114. Frostheim says:

    Once again I cannot stress enough that using a castsequence macro for your SV shot cycle will hurt your dps in an actual raid — here you say your self how you end up missing one of your most important shots for 2 to 3 rotations.

    Castsequence macros work well on the target dummy, when you’re standing still — but in actual raid where you’re constantly interrupted, your macro is going to mess up your rotation no matter what your reset timer is.

    Your dps may even be okay with the macro, but it will never be your best.

  115. Zabou says:

    I tottaly agree with you Frost, but in most of the raids atm i try to calibrate as much as possible the castsequence so that the macro wont break.
    Power auras helps a lot to this so u can know if something is going wrong, but tbh i am kinda lazy to manualy shot them and atm i might have 1 or 2 macro breakings in each fight but still top dps in raid chart. So far i have managed to stabilise the SrS – SS rotation, maybe 1 XS in whole fight, but mostly i have a problem with BA timer, and in long fights BA can break like 3-4 times (manual cast will do the job but still…)
    But for someone that likes macroing the /click macro cycle is good if u get used to it but manual casting with Power Aura’s help if far better :D

  116. Al says:

    What are your thoughts on the theory of Shot Priority -v- Rotation? I have researched another source for SV hunters and it advocates that instead of rotations you use a priority system that means you go for the top priority shot whenever available.

    I haven’t truly tested it myself yet but would be keen to get your initial thoughts on it

  117. Al says:

    Sorry and while I’m at it have you noticed that Lock and Load procs more quickly and regularly since 3.2?

  118. Frostheim says:

    Every shot rotation is basically a shot priority system — what we describe here is a shot prioity system (Use x every time it’s available, etc). The idea is that you can put the shots into a predictable cycle, which is your rotation.

  119. Al says:

    Thanks Frost – the rotation in addition to the MSBT addon (brilliant) has made things a lot smoother and it is much fun to configure the add on so that you hear, “YOU WILL DIE” when kill shot activates!

    I would recommend Mik’s Scrolling Battle Text for newer raiding hunters to provide good assistance with cooldowns. It’s great to know visually and aurally when your shots are ready to go.

  120. Jacob says:

    Ummm in your description you say to use a steady shot in between ES during an LnL proc. Target dummy testing and napkin math all say that is the worst thing to do…if you shoot the ES and follow up with a SS you are wasting time where that next ES could be in route to target so they mesh up perfect. You will see a lower DPS doing that.

  121. Frostheim says:

    Incorrect. ES hits, then ticks twice more (once per second) for full shot damage. If you fire off another ES immediately you will *overwrite* those extra ES ticks (ie: you won’t get them). By firing your Explosive Shot immediately on L&L procs you are losing from 1/3 to 2/3 of your explosive shot damage.

    Always wait for the ticks to do their damage before firing the next ES — and fire another shot while you’re waiting.

  122. Oups says:

    Hello Frost, 1st of all I would like to thank you for the above useful info

    I would like to know the difference between SV & MM hunters, I am a SV hunter with full Uluar25 some from TOC gear, I can see other hunters switching to MM and stacking ArP gems and in addition to that most of the latest gear is having ArP rating. IS MM the highest DPS spec for hunters?? For example two hunters with the same exact gear, SV stacking Agl Gems & MM stacking ArP Gems … who does more damage ? You know it is costly to try to test that as you will have to re-gem and if not worth it you will have to re-gem again.

    2nd question: SrS / BA / ExS / MultiS / SS / SS (if possible) is my current shot rotation unless LnL I squeeze SS after each ExS. Now the question is, does the BA refreshes the SrS dot or you should alway cast SrS when going off ?? & What about the Noxious Sting, doesnt it increases all damage done on targets aff by SrS ?? so in this case rge shot rotation should be: WyvS / SrS / BA / ExS / MultiS / SS / SS ( & so on, unless on CD )??

    Sorry for the multi question phrase .. and will be glad to get clear info regarding all the above

    Oups – Executus

  123. w00rm says:

    Re. the whole Lock n Load / Explosive Shot thing… why not stick an Arcane Shot in there between Explosive Shots? Am I missing something?

  124. Stephen Miller says:

    I am going to switch over to this survival build, but at what lvl should i do this

  125. Arthemystia says:

    While leveling, Stephen, it’s easier to go Beastmaster. Unless by “lvl” you mean gear level. In which case…

    Once you ding 80, SV is the way to go for raid dps. Then at higher gear levels (213+ gear, give or take depending on the theorycrafting source), MM matches then slightly passes SV. Personally I don’t think MM matches SV until you have some t8 gear, but that’s just my personal experience, not a reliable theorycrafting source.

    So if you’re still leveling, I’d stick with BM for convenience unless you have your dual spec. But if by lvl you mean gear level, you can use my suggestion as a rough estimate of which spec you can get more dps from.

  126. SaSSafraS1232 says:

    Your site is great and all, but you should really rewrite this article using a “priority” paradigm instead of the “rotation” viewpoint it currently has. Calling the act of choosing which shot to use a rotation makes people want to embed it in a macro or just follow a particular sequence by rote, ignoring CDs and procs.

    If you rephrase this as a priority system more people will understand that picking which shot to use at any given time is an active process. It will also simplify the article, as it will become more like a single list and less like a basic series with many exceptions.

    Obviously some things (explosive, any gcd, explosive when LnL procs) will still be a sequence, but overall I think this would really clarify this article. I think the whole “rotation” concept is a holdover from when casting clipped autoshot.

  127. Frostheim says:

    You’re probably right, that calling it something else will start to convince people not to try to macro it. I just shudder at the thought that someone is going to try to macro the rotation and then tell people that they got their advice from the WHU.

    Technically of course every shot rotation is priority based. While I’ve been meaning to come in here and update the L&L proc part for a slightly better way to do it, I’m still going to call it a rotation. Why? Because that’s what everyone types into google :)

  128. Beerbelly says:

    hi,
    1st
    ty for this enourmus resource site, the builds and shot rotations where good enough for me to improve my hunter dps. Still working o my gear but i’m getting there.

    If LnL procs and ES is on cd like 2 sec should i wait for ES to come of cd or shoot and SS, or wait for ES to come of cd

    tnx in advance

  129. Talwynn says:

    ToC, your boss is under 20% both kill shot and explosive shot are off CD, your priority shot is?

  130. Rhinochaser says:

    This is all good info. and I have been trying it and on the heroic Dummy I do 2600 no prob. But when I do 5 man heoics as SV My DPS is very up and down. It will spike to 3k and then settle around 2k over all. Whem I use BM Im pulling a solid 2700 in 5 man heroics. Having a hard time getting the hang of SV. Sad & frustrated…
    Any ideas what I may be doing wrong?

  131. Grimwald says:

    Now that black arrow doesn’t share a cool down with freezing arrow, is there any benefit in using freezing arrow to 100% proc the LnL? (either just on the main target or on another mob for added cc benefit). Bearing in mind I will be using black arrow anyway for the dot and damage bonus.

  132. Shepsey says:

    Hey Frost,
    Someone, a hunter, told me that you should do Black Arrow before Serpant Sting because the added damage from the Black Arrow will also be added to the Serpant sting. Whats your opinion?
    Thanks, i will be sticking to you rotation for now

  133. Shepsey says:

    Rhino, i agree, im sv bit deifferent to frost spec, but rbasically the same, and i found my dps is up and down, bosses, i an peak 4k. but mobs is like 3k. To me, sv seems to be better for single targets and longer fights. unless thats just hunters in genereal, cos i haven’t played any of the other specs at 80, i just lvl in BM obviously.

  134. Prelious says:

    Hi,
    I recently decided to get serious about increasing my DPS and found WHU. Man alot of good info here…great site. I’ve been a die hard BM for many years but decided to dual spec SV so I can bring more to the raid. I’m currently hitting between 1500 and 1800 avg dps and I think there has got to be a better way. I did try to adjust talents and shot cycle iaw this article but only managed to pull about 1600 on heroic dummy. Would you guys/gals mind taking a look and perhaps suggesting some improvements?

    Many Thanks?

  135. Gary says:

    You figure Black Arrow gives you 6% extra so the way I start my rotation is as follows..
    Black Arrow – Explosive Shot – Aimed Shot – Serpent Sting – Steady Shot – Explosive Shot – Steady Shot – Steady Shot – Explosive Shot – Aimed Shot – Serpent Sting

    And so on.. You get the point :)

  136. Prelious says:

    Well…guess I’ve got my shot rotation and talent build just about right thanks to all the help WHU has provided …sigh…now how to keep from pulling aggro everytime I merely look at the boss =)

  137. Dinos says:

    Frostheim: Everything is well but i dont get something… I see most people using a macro which triggers steady shot and kill command. Your recomended rotation goes like this
    (1) Serpent Sting (2) Black Arrow (3) Explosive Shot (4) Multi Shot or Aim (5) Steady Shot (6) Steady Shot. So the question is if we have to combine the steady shot with the kill command ability yes or no?

    I started wow again recently and everything seems a little bit strange now.
    I would appreciate as well if you could explain me the kill command ability.

    Thank you.

  138. Warhoof says:

    Kill Command works like this: After using it, your pet will have an increased damge bonus by 60% for his next attack. For his second attack, he will have an increased damage bonus of 40%. For his third and final attack for Kill Command, he will do 20% more damage. This is worth proccing, since it does not share the global cooldown with anything else, and its just slightly more DPS you could be having.

    Also, Kill Command should be procced as soon as you start the fight, in the time that it takes for your pet to get to the boss you should have Serpent Sting then Black Arrow on it. Aimed shot does slightly more damage than Multi shot, however Multishot will do more damage when there is more than 1 target. Aimed shot is also really useful in PvP due to the fact that it works like Mortal Stike–50% debuff to healing.

  139. Itzbruno says:

    I do not know if its said in one of the other comments but whenever Lock and Load procs for me I do this.
    Explosive Shot, Steady Shot, Explosive Shot, Steady Shot, Explosive Shot. I do that to give the Couple second DoT from Explosive Shot to get all the way through….but my way is probably debatable so just putting my input =)

  140. Meg says:

    Fantastic information. thx heaps guys

  141. Jamiila says:

    I am the first to admit that using a macro for surv shot cycle hurts DPS, but I still use it. The reason is that I never properly learned to use a keyboard properly. I use two fingers and have to see keyboard to do it. Most of the time I still click on the icons to shoot. I find that if I use an optimum shot cycle I don’t pay enough attention to the centre of the screen and die of whatever you die from in that Boss encounter. I keep spamming my macro with ES, AS, SS,ES, SS, SS and only look down to fire of ES at LnL or reapply BA and SS when power aura tells me.
    I wish I didn’t need the macro as a crutch, but I figure that a dead DPS is pretty useless.

  142. Luxish says:

    Steady Shot does more damage when the target is dazed, is it worth using Concussive Shot just before an SS?

  143. Stru says:

    @Luxish:
    No. Concussive shot does no damage, so steady would need to do double its normal damage to make it worthwhile (which it doesn’t).

  144. Spankwire says:

    This is a useful macro that i use, it will change your tracking to that of your target and then cast hunters mark so that your Improved tracking will always be active.

    #showtooltip Hunter’s Mark
    /stopmacro [noexists]
    /run for i=1,GetNumTrackingTypes() do local n, t, a, c = GetTrackingInfo(i); if string.find(n, UnitCreatureType(“target”)) then if t~=GetTrackingTexture(i) then SetTracking(i); end end end
    /cast Hunter’s Mark

  145. bratface says:

    nice thanks for that!

  146. bumbleebee says:

    i thought macros didnt work anymore for raiding, the ones for shot rotations? is this true? if not then id like to try one out till i can get my rotation down

  147. h4z3 says:

    @bumbleebee: Shot Macros will still work in the sense that it will still fire the shots off in the order you set them, but as it’s been stated many times for the SV rotation it’s horrible to try and macro the shots as it will just hurt your DPS becuase a macro can never know when you can fit in another shot due to haste rating and or LL.

    They **used** to be awesome becuase auto-shot wouldn’t fire during SS and you pretty much had to macro it so you could max out your DPS, but now that SS and auto will fire at the same time it leaves shot macros all but useless.

    Hope that helps.

  148. Krakkinheds(Whisperwind) says:

    Guys,

    I see a lot of posts and comments about DPS being low while following the shot rotation suggested by Frost. You have to keep the whole picture in mind and that’s where gear plays in. Using myself as an example for my last Ony fight I was pushing 4k dps in a 0/16/55 SV spec and was second to the guild Mage. Here are the factors that play into that:

    1 – 10-man raid w/ priest, shaman (str of earth), 2 druids (moonkin, GotW, LotP), Warrior (BS), Mage, warlock, and 3 hunters (TSA)
    2 – Most of my gear is 219 or higher
    3 – I am over Hit cap (302), AGI over 2k, atk power over 5k, Crit % over 50 (I don’t miss and I crit like an SoB)
    4 – I use a manual rotation that includes:
    a) pop trinkets (In the Ony fight I can do this 8 times)
    b) Pet Kill Command when ever she is on the gound
    c) Kill Shot (when available – I had 4 on Ony)
    d) DoTs: Black Arrow, Serpent Sting as needed
    e) Explosive Shot, Aimed Shot when available
    f) Steady Shot to fill the gaps

    When LnL procs it’s ES->SS->ES->SS->ES->AS (It’s like going Bam…Bam…Bam…BOOM)

    You also have to keep in mind those wonderful Aspect changes. In the Ony fight, I went through 3 changes (1 in phase 1 and 2 in Phase 3). I didn’t worry about HM as the two guild MM hunters kept that refreshed. Also, I made sure that I was tracking Dragonkin (I’m spec’d in Improved Tracking – All Damage increased by 5% for the tracked MoB type)

    So, things to keep in mind:
    1) If you are not hit capped, you are missing which lowers your DPS
    2) If your pet is not in the fight you are losing DPS
    3) Stat priority is Hit Rate (Till capped), AGI, and Crit Rate. Gem and Enchant appropriately.
    4) Don’t forget your trinkets (My Kill Command and Trinkets are macro’d together)
    5) Make sure you don’t spam ES when LnL procs
    6) Don’t use a macro for your shot rotation. You need to be able to refresh your DoTs and be ready for procs.

    Hope this helps.

  149. dwarfhunt says:

    Here is a better Rotation-
    Kill Shot
    Black Arrow
    Explosive Shot
    Aimed/Multi Shot
    Serpent Sting
    Steadyshot

    The reason you want to switch black arrow and explosive is that black arrow gives u a 6% attack power buff while active. So Whatever you cast after will do more damage thus resulting in higher DPS. I have been using this for a while now and can do 3.5-3.8k DPS unbuffed on the Skulled Trainign Dummy

  150. Kilyan - Baelgun says:

    hey frostheim, just reading back through this survival shot cycle and noticed your comment about no hunter should be at 3.5k dps on a lvl83 dummy, that was march 11th, what are your current numbers on the lvl83 target dummies. im curious to see what your new answer would be with the higher gear levels

  151. Galim - Shadow Council says:

    Lots of good stuff up here, I’m currently one of the top dps hunters on my server, with my latest numbers at 7.4k in voa 10. I typically will start with BA, SS, ES, AS, then Steadyx2. I have never macro’d any rotation, as I’ve seen hunters that miss LnL procs, let their dots expire, and overall fail. I use “cooldowns”, a simple addon that dipslays in large numbers on the action bar how long until each ability is available.

    Keeping in mid that every 4th shot is ES, you can take a glance at your bars and have a plan for what your next 3 shots will be after each ES. So if you see SS running short, make sure you refresh it before hitting any other shots, esp steady if you’re glyphed for it. This includes during a LnL proc: 3% may not seem like a lot to miss out on, but on a 7 min fight, an extra 200-300 dps can be the difference between a dead boss and a dead raid. If BA will be available at the same time as ES, or less than 1 GCD after, i’ll wait the fraction of a second and make sure that BA is up before hitting ES, as 6% damage on an ability that counts for 30-40% of damage done is fairly significant over the long haul.

  152. Frostheim says:

    Kilyan — ah, the good old days in early wrath :)

    Nowadays I can pull a bit over 4k on the target dummy without using cooldowns. Less if I’m in SV.

  153. Odi says:

    Was tanking for a SV Hunter the other day in VoA, it’s sometimes hard to critique hunters dps when they don’t know you have a hunter, but this guys was using Arcane Shot pretty regularly in his rotation. I whispered him, that Arcane Shot should be pulled off his bar, since it shares a cooldown with ES, to which he quickly let me know that when LnL procs, if you use Arcane Shot you get more dps, I then whispered back, “pretty sure if you weave a Steady Shot in between your ES, you can get 3 ES’s in succession but whatever”. Pretty sure I know the answer to this, but wanted to verify. Has anyone run some numbers to see if, when LnL procs, ES, Arcane, ES is viable dps?

  154. Satin says:

    Hi, My name is Satindragon on Nazgrel realm. I’m a level 80 SV hunter with lvl 219+ gear.
    I’ve seen all your rotations and tryed them myself. But.. I’m only doing 1.5-2k dps :( was wondering if you could help me.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nazgrel&n=Satindragon

  155. Odi says:

    Satin, your talent points are all wrong, as well as your glyphs. Use this websites survival talent build http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/01/suvival-hunter-raid-talent-build/ to see how you should spend your points, you went WAY too deep into the BM tree, and you didn’t go into MM at all. You only really need one point in the BM tree, and that’s Improved Aspect of the Hawk. YOu also spend some points, in the survival tree, that are for melee. Go to a trainer, unlearn all your talents, and follow the guide, it also gives some different options depending on your haste and hit rating. Don’t put 3 points in Expose Weakness, use 2 at the most. But I’m really just regurgitating what I’ve learned, mostly, from this site, so read it.

  156. Ogun says:

    Im a new hunter and i was wondering how do you start out with kill shot i thought kill shot could only be done on mobs 20% or below on health

  157. Frostheim says:

    It’s a priority system. So you always fire the shot highest in priority if it’s available.

    Kill shot is indeed only usable with the mob is below 20% health — but when that happens, you should always use Kill Shot if it’s available.

  158. Satin says:

    Oh.. okay. didn’t know I had my talents set wrong. I’ll try this new build out the next time i get on WoW. I’l post anything if i need further help. Thank you. :)

  159. CB says:

    Over at Huntsman’s Lodge, a contributor suggested leading with a freezing arrow as that will cause LnL to proc instantly — doesn’t matter that FA will break the sec the tank attacks. Seems logical, but since I’m not at my Wow-installed puter, I’m not sure if FA is on the global cooldown. What do folks think?

  160. Frostheim says:

    Yes, the trap will force a lock & load proc, and yes, it is on the GCD. If you can get the trap there before combat starts (thus not costing you time) I recommend making sure you have black arrow up first, so that your L&L benefits from the damage multiplier.

    Note that you’ll need your frozen arrow hotkeyed, of course, and you don’t want to waste a lot of time aiming it — it’s easy to cost yourself more than just 1 GCD if you aren’t practiced :)

  161. GreatCrow says:

    Can’t Arcane shot fit in to the rotation some how?

  162. Frostheim says:

    No, Arcane Shot and Explosive Shot share the same cooldown — so you get one or the other, but not both. Since Explosive Shot does huge amounts of damage, you definitely want to be using that one :)

  163. GreatCrow says:

    Ah.,,I see! Thanks for answering that question. Now, why is Kill shot placed at the number one slot? shouldn’t be at the end? The target has to be at 20%, and by that time your target is pretty much done for…at least in instances

  164. dmartin says:

    hey I noticed since the patch explosive TRAP has caused lock and load to proc 100% of the time. Has anyone else seen this?

  165. kris says:

    I have tried all the rotations and I can’t get 1 to work I am only a 56 sv hunter can anyone help

  166. Sorvantos says:

    GreatCrow, the reason Kill shot is first, is because whenever you can use it, you should. Its not necessarily your rotation, but its what causes the most damage, whenever you can use that skill.

    Even though Kill shot is your last skill you can use, it will do more damage then Explosive, so between the 2 and you can use either, Go for kill shot.

  167. pow says:

    hi ,
    Iwas waswindering why use the talent points in noxios stings and wyvern stings when they are not recommended in shot rotation?

  168. Arthemystia says:

    Pow – Noxious Stings is not a shot, but a buff that increases Wyvern Sting damage (useless to us) but more importantly increases all damage done by hunters by 3% while Serpent Sting is up on our target. Serpent Sting should always be up on bosses, so this is a straight 3% damage increase, and well worth the points.

  169. Rivellá Draenor says:

    i would leave noxious sting out of the surv build if you have windrunner 2 item set bonus and take the 3 points in imp stings (MM tree) instead combined with serpent sting glyph, is pewpew.

  170. Balzer says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong (undoubtably) but won’t you get Black Arrows full uptime during heroism whether u pop it at the beginning or not? My point being that Heroism lasts 40 seconds and Black Arrow has a 30 second cooldown by default (24 with Resourcefullness). Therefore, either way your guaranteed to have the full 15 seconds of Black Arrow during the Heroism thus gaining all of the damage you would gain from waiting until Heroism is popped to use your Black Arrow. This is even more evident for those with Resourcefullness. One exception to this theory that I can see is that if you were to wait until Heroism was popped to use Black Arrow then u could use Black Arrow a second time before the Heroism buff finishes. But if you want to be technical you have to ask how much it is worth giving up the Black Arrow time that you lose from waiting. If you could clear this up for me in any way that would be great. Thanks ahead of time.

  171. Furel says:

    Realy good build ty. And ill add a good macro for this build also. Changes your tracking, adding mark and pett attack. :D

    #showtooltip
    /stopmacro [noexists]
    /run for i=1,GetNumTrackingTypes() do local n, t, a, c = GetTrackingInfo(i); if string.find(n, UnitCreatureType(“target”)) then if t~=GetTrackingTexture(i) then SetTracking(i); end end end
    /cast Hunter’s Mark
    /petattack

  172. CB says:

    Okay Frost, you’re gonna scream, but I have to ask why the following Macro ISN’T a good idea.

    I would use it ONLY after LnL procs during a boss fight

    /use 13 (in my case Mark of Supremacy, which adds 1024 AtP for 20 seconds
    /cast rapid fire
    /cast call of the wild
    /cast explosive shot
    /cast steady shot
    /cast explosive shot
    /cast steady shot
    /cast explosive shot

    I’m not at my WoW puter, but if memory serves, RF and CoTW aren’t on GCD. So it seems to me this gives you a macro that would do major damage when LnL procs.

    To be clear, I currently manually manage my shot cycle, and since there’s a 2 min cooldown on the trinket (and 5 min on RF, COTW), I wouldn’t use this often. But is there a reason not to use this macro for your first LnL in a boss fight?

    And apologies in advance if this causes you to bang your head on the wall…

  173. Frostheim says:

    The main reason it isn’t a good idea is because it wouldn’t work.

    First of all, Rapid Fire has no effect on your Lock & Loads or explosive shots, so no reason to associate the two.

    But the way a macro works is it goes line by line, starting at the top, and tries to execute the line. As soon as it hits something that triggers the global cooldown, it stops. So this macro would /use 13, try to cast rapid fire, try call of the wild, then explosive shot. One explosive shot fires, it stops.

    The next time you hit it it skips everything on cooldown and gets to explosive shot again, which is available during lock & load, so it fires it again – overwriting your current explosive shot ticks.

    Also, ideally you aren’t using a steady shot in between explosive shots during lock & load. Instead you cast explosive – wait 2 sec – then cast your next explosive. Keep in mind that you cast explosive, then have a 1.5 sec global cooldown before you can do anyting else. So you either wait 0.5 sec for another explosive, or you spend 1.5 sec (wasting 1 sec) on steady.

  174. CB says:

    Okay thanks — makes sense. I’ll use the macro to proc the trinket and call of the wild, then do the LnL explosive shots manually (waiting 2 seconds between shots), which is what I’m doing now anyway.

    All that said, when is the best time for a Survival spec hunter to use Rapid Fire (if at all)? I have 5 points in AotH and the Hawk glyph, so is it redundant? And thanks as always for the excellent info — I’ve literally doubled my dps since I started reading WHU.

  175. Ebynn says:

    I personally do not use Rapid Fire in my rotation – except when having to switch to Viper when OOM to help bring mana back up more quickly. In some rare cases I will stack this with haste from the Shaman’s Heroism on a long boss fight to try to get more auto shots in (since Explosive is the only thing that will out-DPS auto shots). Auto shots most certainly do raise your overall DPS by a significant enough amount to make it worthwhile, especially if you you trinket cooldowns to get bonus attack power. If the boss is on an enrage timer and must be burned down in short order, every little bit counts.

  176. J says:

    Lock and Load, just clarifying here. LnL proc’s, I fire ES, wait .5 seconds, then fire ES, wait .5 second and ES again right? With global cooldown taking 1.5 seconds i just need .5 more? Comments along the way seem to suggest many people SS between is why I am asking.

  177. Murrkked says:

    Hello iam 80 Hunter just witched to SV and with the macro up top and the talent build on this site i can only put out 2.5k on the dummy, is this because my bow only has 129.6 dps? My gear score is 4010

  178. Ebynn says:

    J,
    .5 seconds is not long enough, you have to wait for the 3rd damage tick of ES before you re-cast ES on LnL proc (I just eyeball this, it seems a lot longer than half a second). If not, you are just spamming and the 2nd/3rd burst will not go off (think of it as over-writing a DoT). I’ve observed that trying to stick steady in between ES’s hurts you in the long run because ES will be off cooldown faster if you just wait for the 3rd tick (you are getting your next non-LnL-proc ES more quickly, at a cost of two steady shots, which you get around to anyway after the 3rd shot). Saves mana without sacrificing DPS too.

    Think of it this way: the more ES’s you fire off in the long run, the better your DPS will be overall, since it’s your top performer. An exception is that sometimes I will stick an instant cast BA/Serp/Aimed in there if they are not up on the target.

  179. DPS4U says:

    Hey I am a Surv spec at lvl 42 right now and was wandering what should my shot rotation be right now? Right now i have it at Multi-Shot, Serpent Sting, and Arcane Shot.

  180. belnaana says:

    I’m having beyond a serious issue with my dps, I am above average geared with only 4 things at item lvl 232 and everything else is 245 or above. I seem to be hitting a wall in my dps with raid buffs at roughly 5k when i know I should be pulling a lot more. I keep my pets call of the wild off of auto cast so I can control it and only use it when i pop my trinket, kill command, and rapid fire.
    My shot rotation is as follows: Hunters mark before the fight, serpent sting, black arrow, explosive, multi/aimed depending on the fight, steady shotx2, explosive, serpent.
    I seem to catch every major shot with in seconds of it coming off of cooldown and i make sure to keep my serpent sting up at all times.
    I desperately need to know what I’m doing wrong or I may have to quit playing this toon out of sheer frustration.

    Here is my Armory link, if you have any recommendations on gem changes, gear I am also open to that.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Chromaggus&cn=Belnaana

  181. Yanawqa says:

    The is a really nice hunter addon that helps a lot for shot rotations. It is so godd (I think, anyway) I use it with my DK too. Watcher. Its great, its a prioritised list management. You put your shot priority and the addon informs you what is the next skill/spell you should be using and when (single targets only though, I use other addons to keep track of multiple targets). It works with L&L and it lets you customised how much you want to wait on your Explosive shots (the default is 2 secs). It also let you add skill/spell for other classes and some other goodies. If you spend most of your time on shot rotations on single targets, give it a go. You will not regret it.

  182. belnaana says:

    I mainly just raid anymore, I do the daily and the random heroic when I am ungodly bored or need to buy a gem but thats really it, so yeah most of the time its single target. I will definitely check it out.
    I also realized I had my pet trained in all kinds of jacked up stuff so now that has been corrected and he is trained only in things that will transfer directly into added dps.
    I will try the addon and if that doesnt work i guess I will be respecing to MM and spending an ungodly amount on armor pen gems

  183. Yanawqa says:

    Hei Murrkked, there is no recommended macro here. Your shot rotation should never be on a macro (As it says in the talent guide and as frost has mention here more than once). If you have a macro for your shot rotation, start there.

    DPS4U, all the guides and shot rotations here are applicable to L80s (except lvling guide). For leveling use a BM build. BM would do more damage than surv until L60/L61 when you pick both BA and ES (assuming you have spec SV only all the time), maybe for a while after that too, I don’t know for sure. BM have also better chance to stay alive, so you’ll level faster on that. Its all written here on the various guides.

  184. dryppert says:

    hey hey:) do som of you have a good l&l macro?

  185. Marble says:

    Ok. stupid question, maybe I’ve played a warlock for too long. But if you want SS up all the time, why not begin with your dots (SS/BA) and THEN explosive shot? Color me confused.

  186. Satin says:

    Hey. It’s Satindragon the SV hunter from Nazgrel again. Just got back on WoW and tried the new talent setup and rotation and am loving it. I do waay more damage now. Thanks for the advice. Very helpful site! :]

  187. Crips says:

    @ Marble, DPS is just more that way. :) Explosive shot just makes up such a large percentage of our DPS that we want to use it whenever it’s available, like Kill Shot, wether we have our DoTs & bonuses up or not.

    Opening up with misdirection we can send all that lovely Explosive shot threat straight to our tank & let fly with the DPS afterwards, only having to watch our threat on the next ES cycle if the tank is horribad, also I never get much more than 2 Explosives off on most trash, so building up the DoTs hurts my DPS alot since there just isn’t enough time.

    On boss fights though it’s all to do with the encounter, but I still open up with Misdirection>ES. If I’ll need Misdirection to catch an add soon after engaging for instance, I’ll open up with SS & BA to let the tank build up some threat first.

    @dryppert – macro’s are bad, I found an L&L macro to be the worst thing for me, reason: sometimes I need to re-apply BA or SS, or even fire a KILL SHOT, between my Explosives when on Lock n Load. Also macros made me lazy. :P

    Sorry, I don’t mean to be answering on Frosts site. (these have been mentioned by Frost before)

  188. Solloo says:

    Hello. I need some Help.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting+Nether&cn=Solloo&gn=Cruelty
    That is my gear and for some reason i have a problem topping the meter’s i don’t know if it’s a gear issue or my rotation Please help.

  189. Benameji says:

    I see all these posts about macros being bad. I do handle my shot rotation manually, but I have each shot macroed to also cast Rapid Fire, Rabid, and Kill Command, so that they are up whenever they become available. Is this bad? Is this hurting my dps? Here’s an example:
    #showtooltip Serpent Sting
    /cast Rapid Fire
    /cast Rabid
    /castrandom [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
    /cast Serpent Sting
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

  190. Spapy says:

    hey frost quick one for ya.

    I showed someone your site recently and we were talking about the current surv priority you have listed.

    My buddy was saying something about wanting to have your dots up first to get them rolling right off the bat. He suggested (for an opener before KS could be used)

    BA, Serp St, then Explosive, Multi (AImed), Steady

    I was curious about your thoughts behind this. I’ve tested but I don’t really see a super huge difference.

    thanks again!

  191. zrankfappa says:

    Killshot requires that the mob be under a certain amount of health therefore opening with it is not really plausible.

  192. zrankfappa says:

    uh, nevermind … i misread the Spapy’s comment. coffee anyone?

  193. Matt Zay says:

    So you have and builds for pets (cats :D)

  194. Matt Zay says:

    sry i ment “So do you have any builds for pets (cats :D).

  195. Shaarpy says:

    this is a “priority” list peoples, this means if one of those shots is available this is the recommended order in which you should choose them.

    Of course you cant open with kill shot, but once its available it should be taken before all others.

    Thanks for the guides frost would still love the gear lists updated but waht can ya do :p

  196. Min-i says:

    out of all the comments i read… i found the last one most helpful and clear to what this article was saying… and the no-macro thx :D

  197. Kyle Palmer says:

    so you dont have any shot order you would recommend? I understand the priority thing and thats pretty much how my priorities are except black arrow is more important to me then explosive shot unless the target is almost dead then explosive shot is more important.

  198. Silkhunter says:

    I usually use this rotation – i try to >,<
    serpent sting – black arrow – explosive shot – steady shot – multishot – steady shot explosive shot… refresh sting and black arrow when needed – however there is a little trick here – if you start your rotation with Freezing arrow L&L will proc imidiately and you start your damage with 3 x explosive shot – good if you have used your misdirection on the tank and you get a heavy dps boost from start.

  199. Ave says:

    I saw that you say macros are not as good as non macro’d buttons I tested this theory on the macro thing and found that when i used a macro with (i will use my SS macro)
    #showtooltip Steady Shot
    /cast !auto shot
    /cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
    /cast Steady Shot
    forcing the auto shot first if you can auto shot works out better then a non macro’d shot
    for instance on Morrowgar with out useing macros I would puch out around 9-10k dps
    but with the macro I put up 11,843k. I’m just saying that I beleve that the no macro thing is not better then the macro thing

  200. Dave says:

    I need help, and yes I am a noob – new to level 80 and abslutly lost when it comes to my dps.
    I struggle to hit 2k.
    My shot rotation seems ot match with the advise given here and I am t9 geared.
    So, any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks, and thanks for this great resource. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azshara&cn=Thdashion

  201. Brad Hohwieler says:

    I also could use some help to boost my dps in raids. I have decent gear and was wondering if my spec could be tweaked. I know I am way above the hit capped, but it is all from my gear so I can’t change it much. My rotation/priority list is what is listed. I would appreciate any help or advice.
    Here is my toon:http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Medivh&cn=Roanoak&gn=Dark+Riders+KRB

  202. Zeber says:

    Brad/Medivh – your gear is decent but I suggest picking up t9 bonus in there.

    Your spec is your biggest problem, 2/2 Go For the Throat is overkill you only need 1/2.

    3/3 expose weakness is overkill, you only need 2/3 and 1/3 if you crit alot. you ideally want 3/3 resourcefullness.

    Dave – read up on gems. for your talents – i dont see why you gave up 5 points for the BM tree. max out resourceful/get 1-2 points in hunting party

  203. Runajaeger says:

    Brad – Only go for Imp Stings if you have T9 2 piece bonus. I can’t seem to import your character into the dps analyzer but I’d suspect that dropping hunting party, reducing TotH to 1 point then having 2 points in exposed weakness, max out Master Tech and 1 point in Imp Aspect of the Hawk would be a DPS improvement. And oh yeah get 2 pieces of Tier 9.

  204. FostLongstrider says:

    Dave, I’d be looking to replace some of your gems as the first thing to do.
    Agi then Crit would be the priorities as you are over the hitcap of 263 with 302 atm. If you can pick up Mirror of Truth, it would be better than the PvP trinket you are using. I would also look to replace Clutch of Fortification ASAP as it is not really a hunter’s ring. Either the Ashen Verdict rep ring if you have the rep, or a Titanium Impact Band.
    I would also look at dropping a 2 or 3 points from Improved Aspect of the DH, and move them into Thrill of the Hunt. if you then have an addon informing you how long your shots have left until they are available off cooldown (like OmniCC) and use the shot priority suggested at the top, you should be able to improve your dps

  205. MeinGrosVeno says:

    Thanks for the plethora of information and the time you spend on this site.

    I am currently SV and am WAY over the hit cap , but am currently getting non-hit gear. My question is: Am I too geared for SV and is it time to goto MM spec?

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tichondrius&cn=Meingrosveno

  206. Bralara says:

    Great site here!

    I’ve come across a problem and was wondering if anyone else has had it. When I see the health bar of my target getting down near 20% I start spamming the kill shot button. The problem I’m often having is that the health of my target will die before I can get the shot off even with me spamming the button! Its weird that it happens but it does so often that it really hurts my dps. Its not a problem with bosses so I’m wondering if its system lag, be it my system of the server?

  207. Kold says:

    The easy fix for the Lock and Load problem I have found is not include explosive shot in your macro rotation. No…. I don’t leave it out of my rotation completely I just monitor the CD Of explosive and will hit it any time its ready before I hit macro again.

    This way you don’t need to be concerned with the Macro screwing up Lock N Load. It reduces your rotation to two buttons, and with the help of addon’s monitoring explosive shot and Lock N Load is quite easy.

    I have been using it for a few weeks now and it actually improved my DPS.

    With the server down i forget the rotation i used but its something like

    Kill Shot>Black Arrow> Serpent > Steady > Steady > Serpent > Multi

    The length it takes for 2 steady’s is about the same time it takes for your serpent sting to wear off. So I add an extra Serpent 2nd to last to keep it up.

    I spam the hell out of the rotation and hit in the area of 5k – 6.8k on 80 elite Training Dummies. Obviously it takes some getting used too. I actually have some improvements to make on my talent tree so DPS may be a bit higher for some of you.

  208. Bullitz says:

    Kold – Feel like sharing your Macro?

  209. Yarrface of Earthen Ring says:

    So I just tried to use this macro to see if it works and it only gets off the Kill Command. I’m not a fan of macros but wanted to try this out.

    /script UIErrorsFrame:UnregisterEvent(”UI_ERROR_MESSAGE”);
    /cast Kill Command
    /cast Kill Shot(Rank 3)
    /castsequence Steady Shot(Rank 4)
    /cast Explosive Shot(Rank 1)

  210. msdwallace says:

    i cant seem to get my dps over 3.5k i range between 2.5 and 3.5 sometimes more sometime less, i cant quite figure out what im doing, im sv now but i wanted to start stacking armor pen and go mm. what rotation should i be using?
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=The+Forgotten+Coast&cn=Diciana

  211. Maracuxo says:

    I’ll recommend the addon that makes ULTRA EASY the cycle… Shoot and awe (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/shotandawe.aspx). You wont have to look anything else but the mob you’re hitting with this!

  212. Billybob and Peggy Sue says:

    Lool Nice rotation.. helped me lots..

  213. Daraliss says:

    I just had a question, which is better for DPS Surv or MM? Or is there much of a difference?

  214. Tindrae says:

    Daraliss – Depence on your gear. If your gear has around 700+ in arp without gems and you have the Deathbringers Will, gem arp and try and hit 1400 arp = hardcapped. (MM)
    Softcapped aint that good, compared to agility gemming (Surv)

  215. Sainee says:

    Anything for lower levels? like a 30 hunter?

  216. Dharion says:

    @Maracuzso, ShotandAwe is indeed one of the best hunter addons I have ever used. It doesn’t visually interfere with anything, at least not in a drastic way, just gives a nice graphic shot cooldown timer. For a fun hunter addon, I suggest PetEmote. Try it, you’ll love it.

  217. Snarlz says:

    How does autoshot affect Lock & Load? Should I have autoshot turned off? If I understand the explanation, you have to wait for the cooldown or you’ll over write the 2nd tick of damage. But what happens if autoshot goes off?

  218. Kajkhuron says:

    autoshot does not affect any other shot. it just keeps firing.
    i like to think of autoshot as a dot. you stand still and fire your other shots while your dot is tacking on damage. simple as that. :)
    (of course, it gets more complicated while moving and the use of a stutter step, but that is covered in another post.)

  219. shefChuse says:

    In it something is. Clearly, thanks for an explanation.

  220. Ich glaube nicht.

  221. indursips says:

    In my opinion, you are mistaken.

  222. Sharon says:

    @Ben – I think this is a bit outdated but BEN my DPS just went over 5,000 using your shot progression – TY!

  223. rtyecript says:

    I really liked the article, and the very cool blog