Okay, so it took me longer to get all of the results than I had hoped, and I apologize for that.
I’ve respecced about 5 times to try variations of MM and SV specs, and just ran a 25-man Naxx in which the guild top hunters were split between BM, MM, and SV. So let’s take a look.
All dummy dps was tested on a lvl 83 Heroic Target Dummy. No one else was attacking it, I had only self-buffs, and I did not use rapid fire or beastial wrath (which yield super variable results). I shot until I was out of mana, recorded the result. I did this 5 times for each spec and averaged the results. I’m reporting only the best spec of each build. Here we go:
BM Hunter
The fall from grace seems pretty complete. I first compared BM to exactly how I was shooting before, and saw my dps drop to about 1700. However, I was able to reclaim about 100 dps with arcane shot in the mix, for an 1800 dps round. This recorded as the lowest of the builds I tested (used the devilsaur, btw).
MM Hunter
Right off the bat I saw a healthy dps increase with a standard MM build. I used a full shot rotation for max dps, and ended up at an average of 2012 dps. An improvement!! For the non-BM builds I used the wolf for the pet. His dps is equivalent to the cat or raptor, but he has a raid-wide AP buff, making him the clear dps pet of choice.
Survival Hunter
I was frankly a bit surprised to see reports confirmed and the highest numbers from the SV build — 2102! Admittedly not a ton higher than MM, but survival is also mucheasier to play, and the mana regen abilities were really quite amazing. So Suvival is the winner in the hunter dps contest.
The Builds in Practice
Of course the target dummy is one thing, and raids are another. Not all abilities scale equally with the crazy raid buffs applied. How would SV look in 25-man Naxx?
Well, we hit Patchwerk right off the bat, the perfect test raid boss. What we saw surprised me quite a bit. First of all, we had an excellent raid composition, better than past attempts enjoyed, so we had rockin’ buffs. Overall, the performance of our hunters was surprisingly close. I was a bit over 4400 dps with the BM and MM hunters following at around 4100 dps. Over the course of many boss fights I saw the same effect mirrored. The BM would out-damage the MM, sometimes the reverse, and everyone was clustered pretty closely. Basically it seemed like Blizz had done a good job with the nerfs: all hunter specs were viable, and no longer that huge dps discrepency between all the hunters and everyone else.
By the end of the night, the overall raid damage looked like this:

Obviously the spread was a bit different from boss to boss, but every boss had a mixture of BM and MM and me (the only survival on the raid). I was generally on top, but usually not far ahead.
So overall, Survival seems to be the best raid dps spec at the moment. However, any tree, if played well, is a perfectly viable choice! In fact, your raid will perform best with all three present, so they can take advantage of each others’ buffs.
Some Totally Awesome Things About Survival:
- Survival is easy to play (MM is a bit complicated without macros to do your heavy lifting)
- You crit all the time, and it’s always fun to see the big numbers
- The mana regen is shockingly good. On Patchwerk with a shammy and ret pally, I was literally at full mana the entire fight. On other fights, I never had to go into viper or drink a mana pot. That was really nice! And the other hunters liked it too

In closing, survival has gotten the shaft from Blizz since day one, and I’m happy that they finally have their day in the sun. Being the dps whore that I am, I’m also happy to join their ranks. Sure I made fun of survival hunters for years — but that’s only because they sucked for years and I couldn’t understand the desire to play a dps class and then choose a crummy dps spec. But now they are on top.
So congrats survival. You’re going to see a ton of hunters speccing your way now.
PS: Note that Blizz has said they will be “reblanacing” hunters in patch 3.1. So we’ll have to hold tight and see what else is coming!

Question.
Can you get Lock and Load to proc on a raid boss if you hit it with a Freezing Arrow? Otherwise, I really don’t see how viable it is, having to periodically run into melee range and drop a trap, just to get two free Arcane/Explosive Shots.
Also….I would love to see your actual talent spec and shot rotation for the above DPS chart. This whole survival thing has got me interested
Thanks! Keep up the great work ^_^
I respecced to survival yesterday.
My Currect talent build is:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?tal=200000000000000000000000000353051000000000000000000005300002500033330502135300321
I use a macro so i only have to smash one button. Ofc i also use Serpent Sting every 40 sec.
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/castsequence Steady Shot,
/cast Kill Shot
/cast Explosive Shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Rabid
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Rake
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Claw
Makes is alot easier
Sounds great. I was really worried aboutswitching to survival after being bm forever. I would love to see your actual talent spec and shot rotation for the above DPS chart as well, also how did you srrange your talents for the wolf? I have had a cat forever but sounds like i may have to switch.
Thanks, vinny
Hi
I have a little question what rotation do you use in surv spec?
I would also like to see the build and shot cycle used for the SV spec please.
Lock & Load procs off of your serpent sting ticks as well as your traps. I do not bother trying to trap-dance on bosses unless the encounter forces me to stand next to them anyway.
I’m made some improvements to the spec I was using today (more respeccing and testing — expensive!) and I’ll post the spec tomorrow if I can get a sec.
Rotation is simple: keep serpent sting up. Explosive shot whenever possible, and steady shot in the gaps. (lock & load is a touch more complicated, but that’s about it)
Regarding freezing arrow the answer is no as raid bosses are immune to that shot, also on patchwerk I wouldn’t recommend trap dancing, not worth the risk of eating hateful strikes as your dps won’t be good if dead. With sniper training your dps on this boss wont be too far behind trap dancing, so stay at 30 yards, no chance of dying. As stated by frostheim serpent sting procs LnL anyway.
Here’s my current spec, hopefully will help anyone who’s unsure.http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=coZ0eVooZe00i0cIhxdAhcd
are ppl just spamming the macro…sometimes my macro says fail…and i spam it..im a little confused
Love this blog, carry on!
what did the talent tree look like for the BM?
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/castsequence Steady Shot,
/cast Kill Shot
/cast Explosive Shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Rabid
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Rake
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Claw
Is a nice rotation. But when LnL proccs, you still use that rotation? Or do you switch to Expl Shot-Steady Shot-Expl Shot-Steady Shot??
Do not use that macro!
The macro relies on the buggy nature of the macro system to work and it is inefficient. If you manually manage your SV shot sequence you will have more dps than using that macro.
For some people the macro will work okay most of the time, for others it will work horribly most of the time, and for others it won’t work at all.
Ah kk ty. Well the maccro works fine for me, but doing your cycle manually is much better.